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Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I was offered a load of 2 year old Horse Manure today as long as I self load (ugh). I checked it over & it's very well rotted.
Any ideas or comments as to performance?

Steve

11/7/2002 7:17:56 PM

Key West, FL

Get it, its good and free.

11/7/2002 7:19:49 PM

canal winchester ohio

Make sure there is no sawdust in it ( a lot of horse owners use it) The sawdust will tie up the nitrogen in your soil.

11/7/2002 7:26:51 PM

Key West, FL

What does sawdust do? Ties up nitrogen? Whats that mean?

11/7/2002 8:32:20 PM

Western NY

it means that in order for the carbon compunds in the sawdust (high carbon - to - nitrogen ratio) to be broken down by bacteria, they need nitrogen as an energy source to fuel their metabolism. this nitrogen is taken from the manure (or if you just throw sawdust in the garden, it will pull it out of the soil), and will use it. the nitrogen will be returned back once the decomposition is complete, and everything is "mineralized".

Andy

11/7/2002 8:43:44 PM

Key West, FL

ok, well the manure i used had quite a bit of bark chips in it but i dont see them in the soil

11/7/2002 8:49:01 PM

Southern Illinois

hello andy,how long will it take for the decomposition to complete,once it is put in the garden with horse manure.

11/7/2002 8:50:23 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Good point about the saw dust. They may be using it as bedding/stall-floor-cover. It did look a little "grainy". I'll find out tomorrow. After sitting for 2 years the saw dust should be finished cooking. Shouldn't it?

If anyone does get saw dust laden manure, it can be counteracted with urea 46-0-0 or other high N fertilizer. This feeds the decomposition process till the carbon/nitrogen ratio settles back down. But this could complicate matters for folks who don't have access to or knowlege of specialty ferts.

I've mainly used cow & poultry manure up to now, but free is free & dairy farmers are getting pretty scarce in these parts. LOL! This horse manure is coming from Scarsdale NY of all places!

Steve

11/7/2002 9:21:14 PM

No Place Special

Any opinions on which is better horse or cow?

11/7/2002 9:55:50 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

what's wrong with this picture.......A manure post and no post from Mr. Armstrong!!!! Must have some new things on his mind...hmmm Kilr might have it right!

11/7/2002 10:27:12 PM

Down Stream

I used horse manure that had a lot of sawdust in it and grew the biggest pumpkin in the southern region as well as a state record. The sawdust was probably half way broken down. Allso used a little nitrogen to help break it down.

11/7/2002 10:43:20 PM

Kentucky - USA

I've never used horse manure on a pumpkin plant but it seems to have work better than cow manure on what plants I have tried it on.

Tim

11/7/2002 11:07:32 PM

Hobbiton New Zealand

I put horse manure in a 44gal drum fill up with water leave to soak for a while and use the liquid around the plants.

11/8/2002 12:12:08 AM

Caceres, Spain

I've used cows manure, sheep manure, horse manure, rabbit manure and chiken manure as well. If you can use the amount you want, I defenetly would chose caws or horse manure, because are the lightest and then with the same quantity of main nutrients you are adding more organic matter. But you have to use more. Also the microbiological life is higher in rumiants. The concentration ratio could be aligned as follows (generally), from less to more:
Horse, caw, sheep and goat, rabbit, chicken, pigeon. I wouldn't use pets or pigs manure (because salt and parasits).

11/8/2002 1:46:50 AM

Tipp City, Ohio

I would prefer to use Cow manure since they have four stomachs and can break food particles down better than horses. But around here farmers who raise cattle put the manure onto their fields and there are not many left who actually raise cattle. On the other hand there are plenty of horse stables and if it is free I will take what I can get. I also have goat, chicken and rabbit manure to put into the patch....Tom

11/8/2002 5:13:10 PM

Key West, FL

Same with me bantam, they all spray their manure on their feilds.

11/8/2002 5:46:57 PM

canal winchester ohio

I got a large dairy farm down the road from me & I sure like it.

11/8/2002 6:10:12 PM

Cape Cod

I was given a few yards of horse manure and covered it with a tarp after soaking it down, hoping that would help break it down, but I don't think it has very much in the few months that it has been. In addition, I planted a heavy crop of winter rye, which is now thick and bushy.

I was planning to add the manure in the spring and rototill, but reading here about how sawdust consumes nitrogen, I am wondering if I would be better off adding the manure and tilling it in now, given the availabioity of the nitrogen from the winter rye.

Any thoughts?

thank you from Cape Cod.

11/8/2002 8:20:40 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Wow. That Horse manure varies in depth from about 2 to more than 6 feet deep over an area about 40'x maybe 25'. Very well decayed now. It did contain some wood cellulose but after all these years it doesn't matter. They dumped there for 7 years but stopped 2 years ago.
Hauled out all the truck could safely carry & there are probably 10 more trips before the digging gets rough. I wish they had a small backhoe there though. I'll spread this much this weekend, but I'm going back for more.
Now I need to check with the dairy farmer in the town my wife works in. You never know.

Steve

11/8/2002 8:41:32 PM

Puyallup, WA

I would too! However, 3000 miles makes for quite a trip!

11/8/2002 8:58:06 PM

Deer Park WA

I used old horse manure mixed with saw dust in my patch two years ago to help loosen up the soil. I was afraid of tieing up the nitrogen as well but my cover crop in that area was bigger than anywhere else. You can allways add nitrogen as needed, I was super impressed with how light the soil was at the end of the season you could stick your arm in it up to about your elbow! Oh and I also grew my personal best there last season @ 651#...

11/8/2002 11:15:30 PM

Caceres, Spain

Hey Cape Cod, I go with Gads. I would let the winter rye grow,it will protect your soil during winter, and also turn a few times the manure. Then, if in spring when you till the rye and broadcast the manure (one month before planting), it is not all broken down, add a little more urea or calcic nitrate than you planned to use.
Don

11/9/2002 12:27:48 PM

Cape Cod

Don,

I got ambitious this weekend and spread the manure pile (2 + yards) ontop of the thick bushy winter rye, then tilled it in with a little Honda tiller. It was a good workout. I'm glad I did, because even though I thought I wet the manure pile down really well, much of it was absolutely dry. At least this way, it will be in the soil all winter. I then spread another 10 pounds of winter rye on top, and have my fingers crossed that there will be enough warm days for it to germinate and grow. I took soil samples before, and will take another round in the spring and send them off to UMASS Agricultural for testing, and then compare.

11/11/2002 6:45:35 PM

Caceres, Spain

I know your feelings Dderat, is hard to stay only watching when your mind is working. If you don't have too bad weather, it will grow; rye is the toughest.
Good luck

11/12/2002 1:52:37 AM

Cape Cod

We've had a few warm, albeit really wet, days and the winter rye is starting to sprout. I think I lucked out. Now to get rid of all the wet oak leaves that blew into the garden in the past few days.

11/12/2002 5:23:16 PM

Choctaw, OK

I was wondering if horse manure that has aspen bedding is any good? i was able to get some very nice 3 year old horse manure. The poeple i got it from have aspen as there bedding.

Case

11/13/2002 12:21:33 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Case, I would think that 3 year old anything should be well decayed by now. I'd use it. The more the better.
I spread the Horse manure & tilled in with the Kubota right after taking soil tests. The test came back today. 4.8% OM (before this years additions) Not bad, but not good enough. LOL
So today I got some bagged manure free (some dehydrated & some not) from a garden center owner friend.
I'm still going back for more Horse though. I'd say I'll approach 1 cubic yard per about 300 sq ft tilled down to 10+" before the ground freezes.
Hopefully that will push the OM up nearer 8%, which is my goal.
Steve

11/13/2002 5:03:25 PM

canal winchester ohio

On one of my patches ( 500 sq ft) I've applied 1 yard of leaf compost & 2 yards of cow manure/straw. The organic matter in this patch was 10% before application.
On the other patch ( 1100 sq ft ) my brother has turned under 100 lawn & garden bags of leaves. The organic matter in this patch was 3% before application..........Paul

11/13/2002 5:11:48 PM

canal winchester ohio

Just got off the phone with my brother & I stand corrected. He applied 180 bags of leaves ( 39 gal bags)

11/13/2002 6:13:22 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Now I'm wondering if an 8% goal is too low. I saw some spec's on this once from a Heavy Hitter. I just don't remember where. The university recommendations always seem a lot lower than that, but they're dealing primarily with commercial growers. For them, we're dealing with agronomics based on anticipated outupt vs input. Simply put: Dollars in vs. dollars out. Hobbyists can really pull out all the stops. But I'm wondering if there is a point where more OM doesn't yield any additional benefit. Anyone know?
Steve

11/13/2002 9:14:27 PM