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Topsfield, Ma.

I used Grub-ex this past season with what I thought was great results, as the SVB damage was nowhere to be seen !
Anyone know if this product needs to be re-applied each season, or if enough residual hangs around to be effective for next season ? Hoping to minimize pesticide usage here !
Thanks for any input,
Duff

12/17/2002 8:18:51 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Grub-ex used to contain Merit (imidocloprid) as it's active ingredient. Grubex is a trade name from Scotts. Bayer corporation actually owns & makes Merit (imidocloprid). Bayer started selling the "Bayer Advanced" line of retail consumer products. Scotts got mad. So Grubex now contains the active ingredient halofenozide. Commercially, it's known as MACH2. where the name stands for "molt accelerating compound halofenozide". It causes white grubs (larvae of scarab beetles) to immediately begin molting. They never stop. They die. There are some specific target pest varietial troubles with MACH2 that don't matter to us here.

I don't beleive that halofenozide will perform very well on Pumpkin pests, since it is only active on the insects stated.

Bayer Advanced or the real-deal Merit are readily available.Like the grub-ex, these are not labeled for use on vegetables. The agriculture version of Merit is called Admire & is sold only as a 2lb ai flowable. It is labeled for use on crops, including pumpkins.

Steve

12/17/2002 10:28:02 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Sorry Duff, I forgot to answer the real question. The active ingredient in Grub-ex (imidocloprid) has soil persisitence of about 3 months but only for certain insects. SVB is a little tougher than most. You will need to reapply.

Steve

12/17/2002 10:30:45 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

I used grub-ex early in the season. Thinking that would take care of the SVB'S. That was not the case. Luckily I caught them early. A bunch of other growers had the same results. Shannon

12/17/2002 11:08:11 PM

Deer Park WA

Crazy Grubs! I am so thankfull we have no SVB's up here in "Gods Country", thank you Mother Nature for very cold winters...

Snowing finally, and 21 degrees, also I feel all of America is Gods Country!

12/18/2002 1:20:48 AM

Caceres, Spain

Hey Gerry, didn't you listen to Burt Lancaster in "The Gatopardo", Gods Country is Sicilia, in the very middle of the Mediterranean Sea!..........Don

12/18/2002 12:18:36 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Somethibg worth mentioning. There is an article archived on this site by Len Stellpflug about the use of systemics. Merit (imidocloprid) is a systemic insecticide. When applied correctly (hard to do with granular) on pumpkins, the roots suck it up & tranclocate the insecticide to the vines & eventually the leaves. If a chewing insect feeds on a Merit affected part of the plant at a life stage where it is succeptible, the bugger dies. It eats a little. Or it wouldn't pick up the lethal dose.

The new version of Grub-ex (halofenozide) is NOT a systemic.
It is an ingested insect growth regulator that works by modifying molt paterns.

SVB is not acively feeding as a spring (egg laying) adult.
And since SVB doesn't feed on the roots of pumpkins, then applying a lawn grub insecticide isn't going to do anything. UNLESS the rate gets dialed up very high and the product is placed on the feeder roots. Then the plant will translocate the insecticide.

continued

12/18/2002 1:39:05 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

If laying adults are severe enough to justify it, then Asana, Warrior, Capture, or some other fast acting contact insecticide is the only answer. I may experiment this year with synergized pyrethrins. Pipironyl Butoxide is a popular & relatively safe synergist that aids permethrin in killing insects that are not feeding. Think about the popular wasp killing aerosols. They work almost instantly. But they also contain carriers that will harm vegetation, so don't even think about using them for pumpkins.

I haven't tried it, but Sevin is supposed to be OK on SVB and won't require a pesticide license to buy.

I do not condone nor promote the unlabeled use of any pesticide. I sell Merit (among other things) for a living. If someone wants a copy of the Bayer published delivery rate data that is intended for professionals, drop me an email with your address. I'll mail it to you. (dont worry about the $.37) You will still need to purchse the agriculture version of imidocloprid since this literature doesn't support consumer products or any unauthorized uses.

Keep in mind that this data is for the Pro Turf & Ornamental version of Merit, Not the Agriculture version Admire. Similar rate data is also in the article by Len Stellpflug.

Hope this helps,

Steve

12/18/2002 1:39:29 PM

Topsfield, Ma.

Steve, thanks for sharing all that info. I'm sure it helped a bunch of us out. I think the Grub-ex worked for me because I applied it only along the main and at the leaf axils on the secondaries. If the product was gonna be absorbed by the plant, it was where it had to be ! I suffered no larvae damage to speak of this past season.
Thanks again. I know now to follow the same regimen for this coming season !

12/18/2002 6:32:55 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

If you find the old Grub-ex with the active ingredient Imidocloprid you'll bo OK. If the product sold near you next year is the new formulation & contains Halofenozide as the active ingredient, it won't work. Purchase Bayer Advanced in the Blue bag instead.

Steve

12/18/2002 8:27:45 PM

canal winchester ohio

Bayer Advanced is what I used last year. Had no problems at all with SVB's.

12/18/2002 8:37:16 PM

Rush, NY

On 12/17/2002 Tremor said Admire was only sold in 2 pound increments. I buy it in PINT increments (16 ounces) for about $80. Requires a Pesticide permit to buy it in most states. A pint lasts me 2 seasons.
It is very effective controlling all insects, except the Gray squash bug adults. It kills the young ones..........The only drawback is it also kills bees in the blossoms unless you pick off ALL the unwanted blossoms (male and female) before the bees arrive. I try to do this, but when I miss one I find dead bees the next day.

12/27/2002 8:20:14 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

What I said is that Admire is a 2lb AI Flowable. That means that every gallon contains 2 lbs of actual Active Ingredient. The commercial preperations of Merit2F were only packaged in 1 gallon bottles for 2002. Starting in 2003, there has been discussion of 240ml or 8 oz bottles. Admire may well come in other sizes too. But all of these are still 2lb active ingredient flowables, regardless of the size of the bottle. Usually a 2lb AI flowable like Admire or Merit will have it's name followed by "2F". That is the proper indicator for a 20% active ingredient since 20% of what normally weights about 10lbs per gallon works out to 2 lbs active per gallon. Regardless of package size.

$80 per pint is the going rate. The gallon is about $640.00. 8 pints of Admire will absolutely contain 2lbs of imidocloprid & cost $640.00 (or thereabouts financially).

There will probably also be some reformulation of imidocloprid for consumer use at some point (a 1lb flowable maybe?), but I don't concern myself with these things only because I don't sell them.

Sorry about the confusion. Sometimes I take for granted that all growers are commercial, since that's all I deal with. I get into the rut of too often using verbage that pro's are fimiliar with. What makes growers comfortable, makes hobbyists confused. My Bad.

Steve

12/27/2002 10:53:02 PM

porterville,california usa

i believe in the pesticide free method of protection against SVB.it also works so well that i`ve NEVERseen a SVB in my life. free is to live in an area that has no SVB. glad to be way out west! Heee--Hawww !!!!! sorry ya`ll couldn`t help myself. booth

12/28/2002 12:35:19 AM