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long Island

Is that possible? Its been in the low 60`s during the day and the low 50`s at night.

I have applied according to the directions. 12 tablespoons to one gallon in sprayer.

I have done two applications one week apart. The weeds are still alive and quite green.

How could that be?

10/21/2010 9:53:45 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Weeds need to be actively growing in order for Roundup to be effective. It's possible you'll get some kill out of your application, but at those temps. it'll take awhile.

10/21/2010 10:30:44 AM

Seattle, WA

http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/jan10/scientists_find_negative_impacts_of_GM_crops.php

10/21/2010 2:50:29 PM

Seattle, WA

What are glyphosate’s impacts on beneficial soil bacteria?
RK: The most obvious impact is on rhizobia, a bacterium that fixes nitrogen. It has been shown that glyphosate can be toxic to rhizobia. (Nitrogen fixing bacteria are important to soils because nitrogen is the most commonly deficient nutrient in many soils.)

Your paper also mentioned the potential of glyphosate to contaminate groundwater.
RK: Yes, under certain circumstances. The big assumption for claims that glyphosate is benign is that it isn’t immediately absorbed by the soil. But research is showing that isn’t necessarily true; that it is still available in the soil.
If soil is full of phosphorous, glyphosate could leach into ground water. For example, farmers may use manure from confined animal feeding operations as a fertilizer. The soil will then contain high amounts of phosphorus, which overwhelms the soil. Any glyphosate that hits the soil will be a potential contaminant. It can stay in the soil or it might run off into streams or waterways.

10/21/2010 2:51:23 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

What a bunch of crap!

Roundup is very safe. I have read several papers that show Glyphosate actually increases soil microbial biomass.

Anyway...back to the question. Yes, you can spray Round Up at these temps. It is correct that the plants need to be actively growing, but if you are only down to 50's at night, you are fine. Commercially, we continue to spray Roundup until we have a killing frost. Yes, it takes a little longer for the plants to turn brown, however, that plant is basically dead within 24-48 hrs of application...it just doesn't know it yet!

Now for the hard part. The only thing you will benefit from spraying roundup this time of year is on perennial weeds..i.e. dandelion, plantain, quack grass etc. If you are spraying fox tail, lambs quarters, pig weed, or other annual weeds, you will get no value from spraying these this fall....we call this revenge spraying...it makes you feel good, but doesn't accomplish anything!

10/21/2010 8:54:44 PM

Seattle, WA

I would love to see the studies that you reference regarding the safety of glyphosate, rather than just a comment that my posts are "crap."

Thanks,
Tad

10/22/2010 2:05:46 PM

Seattle, WA

http://www.naturalnews.com/025534_Roundup_research_herbicide.html

Roundup is the world`s most popular herbicide used to control weeds all over the planet and is omnipresent in the food chain of animals and humans. Roundup is claimed to have an active ingredient known as glyphosate (G) and said to be safe for humans even though plants are readily killed. In a first of its kind published study, French researchers recently sought to examine the toxicity of four popular G-based herbicide formulations on human placental cells, kidney cells, embryonic cells and neonate umbilical cord cells and surprisingly found total cell death of each of these cells within 24 hours.

10/22/2010 3:12:12 PM

Seattle, WA

As the percentage of genetically modified (GM) soy in the US burgeons to over 91 percent [1], researchers are beginning to publish harbingers for the potential of a maelstrom of future health problems from GMOs (genetically modified organisms) [2, 3]. One of the potential harmful triggers includes the increased amounts of chemicals present in the environment disseminating at an alarming rate with few researchers examining the combined effects of these xenobiotics on plants, animals or humans. Similarly, much of the existing research on GMOs has been undertaken on the individual organism itself and neglects to examine the more important ecological issue of synergism. This point is very notable because the world`s most popular herbicide known as Monsanto`s Roundup contains a blend of glyphosate (G) and several unknown adjuvants. The exact ingredients in Roundup are not disclosed to the general public and are kept confidential as they are labeled, "trade secrets". Monsanto assures the public these ingredients are inert and are therefore non-toxic. The most predominant adjuvant in Roundup seems to be polyethoxylated tallowamine or POEA [4, 5], which has been implicated in ocular burns, redness, swelling, blisters, nausea and diarhhea [6]. POEA is one of the most prevalent pollutants found in rivers all over the world. Problems begin to arise when G alone interacts with POEA and other unknown ingredients activating and accelerating the resultant mixture known as Roundup [7].

10/22/2010 3:12:35 PM

Seattle, WA

Monsanto patented its G propriety blend and named it Roundup in the 1970`s to kill broadleaf and cereal leave weeds. G is the active ingredient utilized in nearly 75% of all edible GM plants that have been engineered to tolerate high levels of this form of G [8]. G works by inhibiting an enzyme that synthesizes the amino acids tyrosine, tryptophan and phenylalanine thereby killing the weed. Researchers examining the amounts of herbicide used on GMO soy have concluded that the GMO soy typically receives several more pounds of G than conventionally grown soy per acre [9]. Furthermore, researchers have found that several types of newly created superweeds resistant to Roundup (e.g., pigweed, ryegrass and marestail) have been rapidly surfacing leading to increased amounts of Roundup on such crops [10]. These farmers have been told to use increasingly potent mixtures of herbicides and not Roundup alone [11]. In fact, there has been a more than 1900% increase in G use on Roundup Ready soybeans from 1994 to 2006 [12].

For the first time, French researchers recently sought to examine the toxicity of four G-based herbicide formulations on human placental cells, kidney cells, embryonic cells and neonate umbilical cord cells [13]. The researchers used the four most common types of Roundup utilized worldwide: Roundup Express, Roundup Bioforce, Roundup Grand Travaux and Roundup Grand Travaux Plus at lower concentration levels than would be normally found in plants and in animal feed. The researchers sought to determine the levels of necrosis (death of cells due to injury, disease or loss of blood supply) and apotosis (programmed cell death) of each of these cells based on exposure to various dilutions of each of the four Roundup products as well as G, POEA and AMPA (the main metabolite of G at 14 different concentrations of 10 ppm to 2%).

10/22/2010 3:12:52 PM

Seattle, WA

The researchers were surprised by the findings and reported that all four herbicides caused cellular death for all four types of cells within 24 hours. The researchers reported several mechanisms by which the herbicides caused the cells to die including: cell membrane rupture and damage, mitochondrial damage and cell asphyxia. Following these findings, the researchers tested G, AMPA and POEA by themselves and concluded that, "It is very clear that if G, POEA, or AMPA has a small toxic effect on embryonic cells alone at low levels, the combination of two of them at the same final concentration is significantly deleterious".

Although Monsanto claims that G metabolizes into a harmless and inert substance known as AMPA, the researchers found that AMPA was more toxic to human cells than G. This finding is very noteworthy considering AMPA is more stable and present in soil, plants, food and wastewater (2 to 35 ppm) compared with G (.1 to 3 ppm) [14]. AMPA was also found to synergistically increase the toxicity of G and POEA.

The researchers also reported that G acted very quickly at concentrations 500 to 1000 times lower than present agricultural levels to induce programmed cell death. G alone was found to induce mitochondrial toxicity without cell membrane damage. Furthermore, the researchers tested very weak concentrations (.005%) of Roundup and reported cell death, lack of adhesion, shrinking and fragmentation in the cells undergoing apoptosis. The embryonic cells were the most sensitive indicating another major reason to eat only organic foods while pregnant.

10/22/2010 3:13:07 PM

Seattle, WA

Although previous researchers have proposed that the supposed "inert ingredients" alter the role of cell membrane disruptors in fish, amphibians, microorganisms [15] and plants [16], independent of G, this study is the first of its kind to report similar findings in human cells and immediately calls for strict monitoring of the agricultural usage of Roundup. The researchers concluded that, "the proprietary mixtures available on the market could cause cell damage and even death around residual levels to be expected, especially in food and feed derived from R [Roundup] formulation-treated crops".

10/22/2010 3:13:38 PM

Seattle, WA

References

1.GMO Compass. USA: Cultivations of GM plants in 2007. 2008 [cited January 15, 2009]; Available from: http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/agri....
2.Finamore, A., et al., Intestinal and peripheral immune response to MON810 maize ingestion in weaning and old mice. Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry, 2008. 56: p. 11533-11539.
3.Velimirov, A., et al., Biological effects of transgenic maize NK603xMON810 fed in long term reproduction studies in mice. Unpublished study: Institute fur Ernahrung, Austria., November 11, 2008.
4.Acquavella, J.F., et al., Human occular effects frim self-reported exposures to Roundup herbicides. Human & Experimental Toxicology, 1999. 18: p. 479-486.
5.Williams, G.M., Kroe, R., & Munro, I.C. Safety evaluation and risk assessment of the herbicide Roundup and active ingredient, glyphosate, for humans Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology, 200. 31: p. 117-165.
6.Tsui, M.T. & Chu, L.M. Aquatic toxicity of glyphosate based formulations: Comparisons between different organisms and the effect of environmental factors. Chemosphere, 2003. 52: p. 1189-1197.
7.Cox, C., Glyphosate (Roundup). Journal of Pesticide Reform, 1998. 18: p. 3-17.
8.Clive, J., The global status of the commercialized biotechnoligical/genetically modified crop: 2006. Tsitol. Genet., 2007. 41: p. 10-12.
9.Duffy, M., Does planting GMO seed boost farmer`s profits? Leopold Letter, 1999. 11: p. 1-5.
10.Benbrook, C.M. Genetically engineered crops and pesticide use in the United States. BioTech InfoNet Technical Paper Number 7, October 2004.

10/22/2010 3:14:06 PM

Seattle, WA

11.Nice, G., B. Johnson, and T. Bauman, A little burndown madness. Pest & Crop, 2008. 7.
12.Center for Food Safety. Agricultural pesticide use in U.S. agriculture: Why USDA-NASS agricultural chemical reporting is important. May 2008: Washington, DC.
13.Benachour, N. & Seralini, G.E. Glyphosate formulations induce apoptosis and necrosis in human umbilical, embryonic, and placental cells. Chemical Research in Toxicology, In Press.
14.Ghanem, A., et al., Glyphosate and AMPA analysis in sewage sludge by LC-ESI-MS/MS after FMOC derivation on strong anion-exchange resin as solid support. Annals of Chemistry, 2007. 79: p. 3794-3801.
15.Cox, C. & Surgan, M. Unidentified inert ingredients in pesticides: Implications for human and environmental health. Environmental Health Perspectives, 2006. 114: p. 1803-1806.
16.Haefs, R., et al., Studies on a new group of biodegradable surfactants for glyphosate. Pesticide Management in Science, 2006. 58: p. 825-833.

10/22/2010 3:14:11 PM

Pemberton, BC

Wallys talking about spraying round-up on weeds, your talking about spraying round-up on food. Two different things in my book. And from my experience pig weed and marestail have not "become" round-up resistant, they always were.

10/22/2010 4:36:17 PM

Georgetown, Ontario

Leave your preaching for the Eco-Wacko forums. Wally34 was just asking a simple question which CountryKid answered. Take this topic out of the oven 'cause it's done....at least I hope so.

10/22/2010 6:15:20 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

The LD-50 value of Glyphosate is greater than that of aspirin. One would need to drink 22 quarts of Roundup to stand a 50-50 chance of dying from it.

10/22/2010 8:16:37 PM

long Island

Wow, and yes, I thought this was just a simple question.

After not reading all that tad12 stuff, I feel like drinking a few shots of roundup.

10/22/2010 10:41:20 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Pull the weeds ahead of the vines,mulch with the F@#%$& things and forget about them before someone starts to grow a third eye.lol

10/22/2010 11:46:35 PM

South East

http://www.monsanto.com/products/Documents/glyphosate-background-materials/gly_soyrust_bkg.pdf

Heres some info from montsanto, claiming that if used correctly implications for soil dwelling life are vey low.
Considering that we add new life and stimulate constantly during season, i think the benifits out weigh the few consequenses found in research facilities.

10/23/2010 9:52:02 AM

Upa Creek, Mo

Wally, I got a couple hounds you can borrow that will kill that grass real quick. They will even leave behind some black gold for ya.

10/23/2010 2:57:20 PM

Seattle, WA

Apparently I'm the only one here that considers the environmental implications of a "hobby."

How about this then....there is research showing that it kills N-fixing bacteria in addition to other soil biology, is that relevant?

I just think people should be aware of what the potential hazards are associated with using certain chemicals.

(but if Monsanto says it's safe then obviously you should use it)

10/23/2010 5:17:58 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Hey Tad.Get this in your head right now!.When it comes down to it,the only thing i'm concerned about and the majority of growers on this site is a new personal best or a world record as it is pretty obvious you don't have to(no disrespect) be a botanist to grow a world record pumpkin.How many pumpkins over 1500lbs have been grown in organics only in the last few years?Lets get on with it !Lets see 2000lbs!

10/23/2010 8:03:32 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

Holy crap...I guess, I put a hornet under his saddle!

10/23/2010 8:45:00 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

oh yea!

10/23/2010 8:48:14 PM

Seattle, WA

I just didn't appreciate the negativity for posting information. You guys jumped all over me and called my posts "crap" for posting good scientific information. I thought this forum was about sharing and learning?

@Donkin,
Well personally, environmental impact aside, I wouldn't want to be applying a product that kills beneficial N-fixing bacteria in my patch when I could just go out and pull the weeds myself or grow a cover crop to outcompete them during the off season.

You guys are entitled to your opinions, but can we keep it civil?

As far as growing a 2,000 lb. pumpkin, well that hasn't been done with synthetics either and Joe Jutras proved how important organics is, and how a strictly chemical approach can't sustain the necessary growth on these large pumpkins (hence why the trend has been towards microbial and organic foods such as kelp, fish, humates, etc...).

10/25/2010 2:21:41 PM

Western Australia

This forum is great! There are lots of great ideas out there, to say you are only going to get them from one branch of science is like putting a set of blinkers on to me. Take it all in and the skill is in filtering it all out. Anyway from my experience Countykid had the right idea about how roundup works.

12/29/2010 3:43:31 AM

Ohio

Well said Farmerjack. Take what you want out of the post, and leave the rest.Tad is just making a point, one we may want to take something from.

Being a firefighter i get on my guys to wear there SCBA's. Even during overall. Why they ask, "It's just smoke". Well that "smoke" has been proven to cause alot of problems down the road. Mainly, lung problems. That smoke contains alot of different things, plastics from the tv, chairs and asbesto's.

So like everyone else on here that informs us of different growing methods etc. Just take it for what it is, INFORMATION. What you do with this, is up to you.

Thank you
Danny Reeb
Asst. Fire Chief 522
Clarksburg, Ohio

12/29/2010 12:13:30 PM