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Waterbury Vermont

I have a soil test from last year. The results and recommendations were based on checking off the "mixed vegetables" box on the soil test form. The numbers were:
calcium 1036 ppm
magnesium 55 ppm
potash 76 ppm
Ca: Mg: K ratio 27: 2.4: 1
My questions are:
1. If Mg is 55 ppm and Potash (k) is 76 ppm, how can the Mg: K ratio be 2.4: 1
2. Assuming the ratio is 27: 2.4: 1, thats not too far off the ideal ratio listed on page 116 in HTGWCGP 3. But the actual ppm numbers are way below Don Langevins recommended 3000: 300: 150. Should I try to raise all these Nutrients? Mg in my test (55ppm) is listed as "optimum" but as I said, the recommendations are for mixed vegetables, not giant pumpkins.
If any of this makes sense, I'd appreciate some input. Other numbers that might help: ph 6.5, Organic matter 8.7%
Thanks

1/26/2004 12:07:08 PM

Montoursville, PA

Snap Pea you have a darn good start at building a healthy working soil. Knowing the size of your patch and what you have worked into the soil as you did fall prep would help me make coments. Did you use a cover crop? Do you use fish, kelp and molasses, to foliar, feed or fertilize during the growing season? What has been your personal best in this patch in how many years? Finally what plans for the spring do you normally exercise?

1/26/2004 3:42:45 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Snap Pea,

You're the victim of the inconsistant manner in which soil labs report the data they retrieve from our soils.

You may be confusing ratios with percentages. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

First we convert Parts Per Million to Pounds Nutrient available by doubling what they gave you.

Calcium = 2072 Lbs. Per Acre
Magnesium = 110 lbs per acre
Potassium = 152 lbs per acre

If we had your soils Cation (say "cat eye on" quickly) Exchange Capacity (CEC) we'd be in business & can convert what we have so far into the percentages found in Don's book.

Is the CEC or "Percent Base Saturation" data also located on the labs report?

Steve

1/26/2004 5:37:26 PM

Waterbury Vermont

Hey guys, thanks for the replies
Here's some more info:
Doc- unfortunately the patch is completely new this year. All I had time to do last fall was till in the field grass that had been growing there for 15 years +. I was going to add some lime but never got around to it. So no lime, no cover crop, nothing at all. I realize this is far from ideal but areas that had been tilled before had to be used for other things. I'm going to till it up again in the spring and hope that the field will be in somewhat good shape by the time I'm ready to transplant. If you have any tips for preparing the field in a hurry this spring that would be great, but I realize any lime applied this spring wont do much this year and the sod I tilled under late in the fall isn't going to be as broken down as it should.
The field itself is a large 200'x100' area on a slight slope. Clay soil.

Steve- This soil test is actually from another field about 500 feet away, not the field I am going to grow AGs in, but most soil tests I have done have similar results so I'm assuming that when I do test the new plot, it will be close. Really, I just wanted to get an understanding of the Ca/Mg/K ratios. I do have the effective CEC. I'ts 5.8 which according to my lab (University of Vermont) is somewhat low for a clay soil. I didn't mention this before because DL says in the book that he feels CEC isn't as important as base saturation percentages and ratios The only other info in the soil test: available phosphate- 2.7 ppm. Aluminum- 80 ppm.
Thanks a lot
Joel

1/26/2004 9:40:25 PM

Montoursville, PA

Joel.......with that input may I say you have a great piece of ground to work with. Somehow I distrust the humus content but gollies I am not familiar with your area. Our area average would read 2.5% humus and we go from there.
...OK here is what I would do. I would use just ten pounds of Ironite, Greensand or Azomite from Fertell per 1000 sq. ft. of patch this Spring. I would add half a bag or about 25lbs of organic fertilizer not greater in numbers than 5-3-2. Smaller numbers would be just fine. I would add any reasonable amount of finished or partially finished compost you may have with ten pounds of corn meal per 1000 sq. ft.
...I would add no synthetic fertilizers to the effort to build a healthier soil. This just does not work, in spite of the fact it may excite what appears to be better growth.
....I would be ready to treat the first tilling with four ounces of fish and kelp to be tilled in with eight ounces of cattle grade molasses. One month latter I would do this again. These are liquid ounces per gallon of water per 1000 sq. ft. A little more or less is fine. Nothing here that will upset the patch used within reason. I would wait until next fall to really start adding manures and leaves plus a cover crop.

You are already in soil that could grow you a darn nice fruit. 1000 lb. fruit have come from condtions less desirable than your present soil test indicates.

Your success or lack thereof will likely come down to tecnique of which weed free, minimal but closely observed and modest introduction of insectice and fungicide if needed, will be the determining factors. Plus, let us not forget mother's input pluss just plain luck.

The largest pumpkin ever grown in Pa. was grown in soil with less tested potential than you are starting with. In addittion that patch was absolutely flooded three times last summer. It still produced four pumpkins over 1000lbs (three of record...one was lost).

1/27/2004 9:29:38 AM

Montoursville, PA

Grower technique and management is clearly seen by the fact that by test my soil was undoubtedly better than that of Larry Checkon's and Tony Ciliberto's last summer. I live and grow just about dead center between them, in North Central. Pa. Another fine organic principled grower Craig Lembke has consistantly grown huge near the 1000 lb goal lives and grows in less desirable condition than I plus he is a couple hours North in meaner weather conditions.

How's come then I did not make the big time fruit goal? Simple! The grow and the finsh had to deal with me. I'm sure any of them could have grown nice winners in my patch.

1/27/2004 9:46:49 AM

Waterbury Vermont

Doc,
We seem to be pretty much on the same page. I've always used pro-gro at about 30.lbs per 1000 square feet, and thats what I intend to use this spring. Pro-Gro is a granular organic fertilizer from North Country Organics in Bradford Vermont. It's 5-3-4 though, not 5-3-2. Time and money allowing, I'll try to add some of those other things too.
I agree that the OM percentage seems high, but my soil tests have always had that. I'm just lucky in that regard I guess.
Thanks for all the input.

1/27/2004 1:01:23 PM