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Monroe Nc

Can you grow a giant in 500'square feet? And also I will need to grow in the flag pattern for two plants and Christmas tree pattern for one plant, which pattern is the best? Trying to lay out patch for planting.

3/14/2012 9:14:32 PM

Piqua, Ohio

I've tried the flag with one plant in 5oo sq ft and produced a 982 for a small patch the flag method is pretty good, just my opinion though

3/14/2012 9:21:34 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Ive posted this link quite a few times when this question gets asked, and a good question too. I was wondering the same thing 2 years ago. 700 pounds in 105 square feet... that's impressive.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=118442

3/14/2012 9:39:22 PM

Muddy Waters

A lot of what you will hear is opinion,We were growing 1000 foot plants in the 90s,Now some are growing 500 to 600 foot plants & hitting 1600 & 1700 pds.Go with your gut feeling.Im growing 3 plants on 1680 sq feet.We will see what happens.I think 500 is more then enough plant to grow a World Record.

3/14/2012 10:17:17 PM

Rapid City, SD

never grown a plant over 250 square feet before....weighs of fruits............to name a few.......992 evans dmg est........917 winey dmg est..........1120 evans.
fruits off 150 square foot plants.......556* winey.......676* winey

3/14/2012 10:23:59 PM

Monroe Nc

Thank you all for your reply. I feel better about my patch room now.

3/14/2012 10:46:58 PM

President - GPC

What siZe waZ your patch LM Pete....??

3/15/2012 10:04:08 AM

Hinckley MN

In weightlifting they use the size of the competitor as a tiebreaker (% body weight lifted). Pumpkin weigh offs don't give bonus points for smallest plant size. Don't short yourself on space. Remember that the you can grow vines across the lawn and up fences. just keep the fruit on the ground or fence might get... squashed!

3/15/2012 10:22:02 AM

Muddy Waters

My theory is a smaller plant will produce a bigger fruit.I dont see it as a sacrifice but a bonus the smaller plant.Less chance of blowing her up at 45 lbs a day.There is a ideal size plant .I dont think it has been proven yet & may take some time to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.If the vines not rooted in the soil is it helping the plant or taking away from the plant??Asking? does anybody know?

3/15/2012 2:31:23 PM

Monroe Nc

My patch is about 1456 sq feet. Plus I have a small area that is about 350 sq feet. Does that help wiz, I can also let plants grow into yard if need be. Was going to use small spot for back up anyway. Can always till in more sq feet if vines need it. Thanks

3/15/2012 3:15:58 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

I've found 500 sq ft per plant grown in xmas tree pattern is plenty of space. Flag patterns in 250 sq ft (25 x 10) have done just as well for me.

With 1456 sq ft and an extra 350 sq ft, you have lots of room to get several great sized pumpkins....possibly records in the making.

Good luck.

3/16/2012 1:24:35 AM

Monroe Nc

Thanks to your replys, advice taken.

3/16/2012 6:57:51 AM

Stanwood, Washington

I grew 441 on 100 SF last year. It was my first year, I didn't soil test and I found out afterwards that My soil PH was at 5.6 which is wayyy too low. I am convinced that I could have been much bigger if I had prepped the soil. A decent sized patch is desirable but If I had to rank all of the factors in growing a big one I would rank them like this.

1. Good Seed
2. Good Soil
3. Good Growing Technique
4. Good Weather
5. Patch size.

3/16/2012 2:30:22 PM

East Jordan, MI

I have read several discussions on this topic and although I am no heavy hitter, here is my take on the subject. First, it's not JUST about sq footage. The soil (healthy microbiology, tilth, CEC, nutrients and watering) and plant health are major factors. A small healthy plant in GREAT soil will most assuredly do better than a perfect sized plant (whatever that means) in poor soil, or an unhealthy (due to disease or nutrient deficiencies) or stressed (due to heat or other environmental extremes) plant. However the plant is the "food factory" for the fruit. There is most likely a balance somewhere where growing more "salad" (plant) will take away (or at least not add to) the sync (fruit). That is one of the quests.

There was an interesting topic at Niagara in 2010 about keeping the main vine tip growing because the hormones created in the vine tip help the plant by signalling that "I'm not done growing yet, give me more".

By simply looking at the available data you can make some educated decisions on a starting point for plant size.

If you look at the top 50 fruits on aggc with the sq footage listed (all over 1650 lbs) -- 5 or 6 do not have sq footage listed -- you will see the following patch sizes:
largest 1260 sq ft (1794 DMG)
smallest 500 sq ft (1723 DMG) and 1581.8
There are 3 total that were less than 600 sq ft
There are 13 total that were between 600 and 682 sq ft
There are 11 total that were between 720 and 780 sq ft
There are 13 total that were between 800 and 875 sq ft
There are 4 total that were between 900 and 950 sq ft
There are 3 total that were between 1000 and 1064 sq ft

3/19/2012 2:54:14 AM

East Jordan, MI

The 3 that are over 1800 lbs were all grown in less than 800 sq ft (2 of them in the 600 range).

This gives us a peek at what the top growers are being successful with, but again, it's not ALL about patch size or there wouldn't be such a wide range in this relatively small sampling. It also shows you that the HHs are trying different things to see the cause and effect.

3/19/2012 2:54:30 AM

East Jordan, MI

Daggone dyslexia, I read over that post 5 times before submitting and still got something crossed -sorry.

If you look at the top 50 fruits on aggc with the sq footage listed (all over 1650 lbs)

Should have read:
(all over 1560 lbs)

3/19/2012 5:10:33 AM

Muddy Waters

Great Job! Cecil Im going for the small theory this year about 500 feet per plant in great soil.Thanks very helpful

3/19/2012 7:09:27 AM

Muddy Waters

I like the 2 in the 600 range that means were getting closer to the perfect size plant.I think it will be somewhere between 500 & 700.Just my opinion I'm no X-purt but I pretend to be one on BP!lol

3/19/2012 7:15:35 AM

Hinckley MN

if you look at the bell curve of the data, the "perfect size" is in the 600-900 range. The question becomes is that because it is best for the plant or because more growers use that size range. I would guess that there are more growers who use the smaller <600 size plots than use the larger >900 size plots. therefore the 8 over 900 sqft from a smaller sample is more significant than 4 under 600sqft from a huge sample size. in order to get accurate information on what is "best" you have to adjust for the number of growers using each plot size in the total grower population. Also, clearly 600-800 sqft is sufficient to grow 1800lb fruit because it has been done several times by different growers. again you have to ask if that is because it is best, or because most growers use that size patch?

3/19/2012 12:04:22 PM

Breslau, Ontario, Canada

way back in the day, Growing huge plants even approaching and over 1000sqft. As pruning strategies emerged and vine burying became practiced the plants became smaller.
With the techniques we have now and the knowledge of how large the root sytems get, is it time to perhaps go back to growing a plant over 1000sqft???
Is this what we need to push the 2000lb barrier???

3/19/2012 12:57:19 PM

Omaha, Ne.

Disney been growing up, for years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipy1tF5DU-Y
No monsters but still cool

3/19/2012 7:07:10 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I am limited in my growing space, which is about 400 square feet in a l-shape. Neither the christmas tree or flag will utilize all the space. Any suggestions?

3/22/2012 2:03:10 AM

Hinckley MN

I think the general goal is to fill the space available with buried seconday vines and limit tertiary vines to almost nothing. Imagine that you "unbend" the L and your main vine runs down the middle. Now in your mind "rebend" the L with main vine already in it. that can be where you run your main vine in the L shaped patch. then run your secondaries off of the main and cut them off at the edge of your patch. its an option.

3/22/2012 8:46:39 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

if i do that, the secondaries will collide on one side of the bend and be further spaced on the other side...could be time to start measuring and drawing

3/22/2012 8:37:18 PM

Stanwood, Washington

to bnot. You could start the vine in the middle of the bottom of the L and run vines out buth sides until you rech the end of the bottom leg. depending on the exact dimmensions you could align the main so that by the time it reaches the end of the bottom leg the vine is at the edge of the other leg. Then you could run a flag pattern from there. Don't know if you can decipher that, its Kind of hard to explain without drawing it out :) Basically christmas tree for the first part of the plant and Flag for the second part.

4/2/2012 4:15:35 AM

East Jordan, MI

There are a lot of ways to get 400 sq ft in an L shape, if you provide some length and widths on each leg, it might help answer the question. In short Ben and Cpt are right, you just need to have the main long enough to set a pumpkin try to get the vines behind the pumpkin as long as you can, and fill the space with leaves. Leaves are the food factories that are going to feed the pumpkin. The way I picture it is to start in the corner and turn the first few sets of secondaries backwards up one leg and let the main grow up the other leg. Then sweep the later secondaries forward until the area is filled. Think of a modified spider. If the legs are really narrow, then working off of one side will give you the most length on the secondaries without crowding everything (which can promote PM). And you are right get a peice of graph paper and start drawing.

4/2/2012 8:36:19 AM

Stanwood, Washington

Saw the Pic in your Diary. it doesn't look like you have enough width to runn the christmas tree pattern around the corner. Your side vines would be too short. I would start the vine at the bottom on the picture and have it run along the side of the house. run all the vines off of the left side of the plant and as many as you can fit on the right side of the vine before you run into the house.

4/2/2012 5:03:41 PM