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Easthampton, MA

This is only year 2 for me as a giant grower, and last year vine borers got me late July. So I'm lacking experience with different plants and variations.

Here is the deal -
*Been pinching all flowers until female showed up.
*2 weeks ago started letting males size up to make sure I had one when needed.
*Female appeared on main vine (~15' out) on 6/28
*Marked likely males to keep an eye on, and now have three more females forming on side shoots.
*Today, first female has nice 'pre-pumpkin', but flower hasn't grown for last 4 days or so???
*All males seems to have stopped sizing up as well?

I don't remember this happening last year. It seemed like they just exploded open in maybe 4 days. (memory maybe bad?)
No flowers have aborted, just sort of in holding pattern?

Is this normal and am I crazy? :)

Other notes:
*Over fertilized with N early on. Attempted to leach it out and new leaves look good.
*Applied MAP early and maybe too much. Might have been hard on roots for a bit? Not sure.
*Using imadacloprid for insect control. (Bonide Systemic, a.k.a. Merit) (Watching flowers very, very carefully to prevent bee access to any of them.)
*Side shoots on main vine have stopped growing as fast. Older ones going great, but newer ones just growing very slowly.

Thoughts would be super helpful!

7/6/2015 11:10:10 AM

Easthampton, MA

Hmm.. I haven't cut the leaf or side shoot from the female flower node. I'm going to do that and see if it helps jump start it. :)

7/6/2015 11:18:36 AM

East Jordan, MI

This is a lesson well learned...
Don't pinch males off ahead of time. They will naturally start blooming about a week before the first female is ready.

There will only be one to 3 a day for the first week, so if you pinch of more than 8 males you are risking taking the ones off that will be ready the same time as your first female.

At this point unless you have a grower close with males available you will just have to wait it out. Depending on how many you cut, how long you will have to wait....

Good Luck!

7/6/2015 9:14:16 PM

Easthampton, MA

Well, this morning I saw exactly as you described. :) The female is going to open tomorrow, and not a ready male is to be found. :( I'm sad since this female is in the perfect place in my patch, but there are many, many more appearing elsewhere so the stars will align soon.

Since last year was a 'no pumpkin' year, I've been saying my only goal is to get 'a pumpkin'. If it isn't a 750lb+ pumpkin, no worries. I'd be jazzed to break the 400lb mark.

Always learning. And having fun while I do. Thanks for the reply.

7/7/2015 10:34:01 AM

Mission Viejo, CA

MadMike
Do you have any other growers near you? Someone might have male flowers to share!

7/7/2015 11:56:18 AM

Plymouth, Mass.

Madmike you are 2 hours and 15 minutes from Plymouth , mass...I should have plenty of males. If interested

7/7/2015 12:51:33 PM

Plymouth, Mass.

And I know there are other growers closer.

7/7/2015 12:52:23 PM

Easthampton, MA

Oh wow! I didn't expect that kind of support. :) I really appreciate it, but it would need to be pretty local for me to be able to steal time away to jaunt out.

Saying that, it would be really fun to meet another grower and see their patch. If there is a grower in Western Mass, I'm all ears. :)

7/7/2015 6:53:05 PM

Williamsburg,KY

MadMike, here is an idea. Perhaps someone in your area is growing regular pumpkins or some kind of squash. That pollen would work, of course, the seeds from your fruit would not be considered AG's but the pollen would pollinate. Also check the Growers Diarys maybe someone is close by and doesn't know you need pollen. Good Luck

7/8/2015 7:13:58 AM

Easthampton, MA

Croley, thank you for those ideas! I just checked and it seems giant pumpkins are quite popular in Mass, but in Eastern Mass... :) A bit far.

But your idea of local squash pollen is super helpful. There is a farm almost right around the corner that grows pumpkins. I'm off to see if I can get a flower!

Will a reg. x AG still produce big size? I'm not looking for a 1000lb+, but 500lb+ would be great for year two. :)

*** gets dressed and heads for the car***

7/8/2015 8:39:01 AM

Springfield, VT

A field pumpkin will not cross with and AG but they may be growing some big max or winter squash which will work.

7/8/2015 9:06:25 AM

Easthampton, MA

Well, local farm didn't have pumpkins, but the community farm next door had lots of squash plants. 'Borrowed' a handful of males and pollinated. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I have another female opening in two days, and still no male close to opening??? This would mean I have haven't had a male open since I stopped picking them on around 6/15 or so.

Did my picking early on somehow affect the progress of future males?

Does burying the node before the male opens stop it's development? I've been burying as soon as it looked possible, especially since my early start had so many leaves for so few roots. Hmm... This seems possible.

But, I have a male on the main vine unburied (3 joints back from target female) and it seems slow to go as well.

In the first month I told myself, 'stop fiddling, you're going to love it to death'. :) Perhaps I'm still loving a little too hard.

7/8/2015 10:40:39 AM

Williamsburg,KY

Thanks Wilbur, I just learned a new fact. You are completely right, it must be a curcurbit maximum. Like hubbard squash. Thanks for sharing.
MadMike, keep us informed, sorry for your troubles. We all have learned the hard way.

7/8/2015 11:58:50 AM

Easthampton, MA

Oh... Winter squash. That's helpful to know for the future. Thanks.

Well, I guess it's back to waiting for a male to open. :) If I can pollinate by middle of month I'll still consider it a victory. Even the end of the month means I get to learn about the growing process, so no worries really. Just keeping vine borers out means I've moved quite a bit forward! ;)

7/8/2015 12:08:15 PM

East Jordan, MI

madmike
The pollen only affects the seeds in the fruit and has no effect on the currently growing fruit (except to make it viable).

The pumpkin that is currently growing will take on the properties of its parents (the cross made last year that is designated on the seed packet)

7/8/2015 8:56:22 PM

Aurora, Il

I have been using the Tribe combination recommended on the website here until my main vine set out the length I was looking for before focusing on the flowers. I wanted a really strong root network and with that I found a really nice set of males and females. After I started to see at least 3 females, I began set feeding schedules. One product I highly recommend is Nutri Aid Blossom Booster and Fruit Finisher. I have noticed in the past that too much nitrogen once the plant is setting can sometimes transfer too much energy towards plant vines and leaves. With that said, I have found putting more focus on phosphorous and a nudge on potassium helps to encourage strong flower production for your selection. Keep in mind and I am assuming you amended your soil and tested it prior to planting, that these are things that worked for me. I am also learning from you as well. Best!!
**note: use products with neem oil as a try because these will not harm beneficial insects you are looking forn the patch. Also, plant nasturtiums and oregano in the patch it really works to defend your plant!! Try to attempt to alternate or reduce the amount of synthetic chemical pesticides in the patch because these do kill both good and bad nemotodes - you need some of the good bacteria to keep what you cannot see above the surface alive.

7/8/2015 8:57:54 PM

Easthampton, MA

Thank you all for your continuing support and suggestions. :)

Cntryboy, I figured as much, but I wondered if the number and quality of the seeds in the pumpkin affect it's development. I'm thinking here of a hormone feedback or similar. I really have no idea, so it's a fun experiment to try. My zucchini z AG cross seems to have fertilized. So I'll see how it goes.

BiddGoat, I actually haven't had the soil tested. I figured I really wanted to work on the mechanics of growing before working on the refinement. :) But the patch I am growing on is very, very fertile. It's my compost patch of 15 years and it gets a lot of management since I started last year. It's probably a little high on the N side naturally, but I'm not worried for now. As for P and K, I was going to give it a foliar feeding of monopotassium phosphate soon. Not much, but just enough to make sure it's not deficient. I'll keep Nutri Aid Blossom Booster in mind though. :)

On pesticides, I'm using imadacloprid. It's a systemic so it is absorbed by the plant and as such, doesn't affect any other insects present. (It's not available for ingestion on its own.) I'm not sure if it affects nematodes or soil bacteria but it's not likely since its mode of action is targeted to insect nervous systems. The only concern with using it is to make sure bees don't have access to the flowers as it can be quite toxic to them. I'm a very big bee fan, so I'll be managing the flower openings very carefully. (The pumpkin is in a wildflower meadow I manage to be pollinator friendly.)

7/10/2015 2:44:39 PM

Easthampton, MA

On my basic issue of fertilizing females, it seems to me that the males might need to get some sun to develop. I pruned some leaf area around one yesterday and I can already see it growing faster. I opened up the canopy for several others and I expect to have some males for the next round of females in the next two days or so. Yeah!

I was wondering if anyone else can comment on the sun vs. male growth theory? I have a slightly over dense canopy I think so I'm am opening it up a touch -- good for air flow as well. I was thinking hitting it with a little MKP my help flowering as well. I just haven't had time to spray, and I've been reluctant to f**k with it more. *grin* I don't want to 'over love' it.

7/10/2015 2:44:47 PM

Easthampton, MA

Oh, one more question.

Would it be better to have the pumpkin on the main vine, even if it is really far from the stump, or pick a middle secondary to focus on? My main vine is producing females around 20' feet from the stump now and that seems kind of far from the meat of the plant.

Of course, I'll pollinate several and see who does the best, but I was just curious.

7/10/2015 2:51:53 PM

East Jordan, MI

Male development is age related.

Main sets are preferred. However I think you can make a side a new main (to the plant) if you cant get a main set. See my diary for an example and ezplanation on Jun 27th:
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=240549

7/11/2015 6:45:21 AM

Easthampton, MA

Cntryboy, Thank you for the diagram and concept. It makes me feel good about continuing setting on the main vine since you seemed to have tried until 27 feet out. And to never get discouraged about failed setting attempts. :)

I like your idea about creating a new main if needed (and possibly for space considerations if layout of plot is restricted, and you're not competition seeking).

Helpful tip on males and age.

And I am happy to say that my zucchini pollination was a success and I'm on my way! Yeah! Next year I'll have to start a diary I guess.

Thank you again for great advice. It's awesome to be entering such a helpful community. :)

7/11/2015 8:18:36 AM

East Jordan, MI

awesome mike!

Grow em big!

7/11/2015 9:12:11 PM