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Connecticut, USA

Color requirements - To be eligible for the heaviest pumpkin, and to qualify for GPC prize money, the pumpkin must be 75% to 100% pumpkin color or colors. (See stipulation 6a below). All others will be considered squash.

6a. Pumpkin colors will include orange, red, yellow, tan, cream, white, and/or combinations of these colors. Squash colors will include green, gray, blue and/or combinations of these colors.

6b. All of the surface area of the entry, (including the area between the ribs) visible when the pumpkin is resting in the position it was grown, must be considered. The color of the (not visible) area underneath the pumpkin will not be considered.

6c. Any pumpkin arriving at a weigh-off that is questionable, color wise, will be set aside for Special Attention, requiring that five (not two or three) judges will utimately rule on such entries. The five judges will be composed of the original two judges, plus the site
co-ordinator, plus two experienced growers appointed by the site co-ordinator prior to the weigh-off. These last two appointed "deputy" judges must not have grown an entry in question, and they must not have entries in the weigh-off that appear to be in the top five. A vote by these five will make the final decision on the questionable entries.

6d. Before the weigh-off begins, a grower may request that the five "Special Consideration" judges inspect his or her entry on its classification; pumpkin or squash. (This is to correctly position the entry for judging in the appropriate class at those sites where pumpkins and squash are displayed and weighed at different times).

In order to assist the five judges who will rule on questionalbe entries, the Steering Committee will supply each site co-ordinator with a selection of color photos, perhaps a dozen or 15 in number, to help define the acceptable and rejectable color parameters. These photos will be mailed to the site co-ordinator two or three week prior to October

6/13/2002 9:51:15 PM

Choctaw, OK

what kind of ruling is that? it is almost the same darn thing.

Anyways...as i read a messaged posted by paul smithhisler....this ruling only applies to GPC Prize Money and Local weighoffs can and should be run by Local opinion on color. Not sure if he is correct, but i hope my weighoff judges color by local opinion.

Casey

6/14/2002 1:04:00 PM

Long Island,New York

Wow....Six months for that? Terrible,waste of time, incomplete.....typical. Listen to the people? I have to laugh. Check any survey you want and you'll see the real story. Disgraceful....but, sadly,not unexpected.....G

6/14/2002 3:52:08 PM

Puyallup, WA

The Golden Rule......He who has the gold, rules!

From what I can see, this applies specifically to the GPC... First Saturday in October...weigh-off. If your local organization wants to have a "Squampkin" Weigh-Off on another date, I see nothing that prohibits that.

Am I correct?

6/14/2002 4:14:53 PM

Utah

i like the rules... which they would have gone
more restrictive on the orange....
throw out the cream's... etc...

6/14/2002 6:44:54 PM

Topsfield, Ma.

Gotta agree with Case and G here...just my 2 cents worth !

6/14/2002 8:42:46 PM

Indiana

We could argue about this for years. People would be unhappy no matter what the ruling was. They ruled. It is over. Nothing will change it. Get over it. Period.
Tom Beachy

6/14/2002 10:22:22 PM

Sorry Tom: I must agree with Case & Glenn, Nothing has changed. Big disappointment for this fifth year grower, still subjective & will not be consistent at all weigh off's. They didn't listen to what the growers wanted, a level playing field for all.

6/15/2002 9:22:00 PM

Roanoke Il

I would have to agree with Case Glenn and Bill. If the GPC is about what the members want I think they should have listen to there members.It seamed to me That what I've heard and read There was a change wanted by the masses and it dided come about. Well maybe next winter if the members of the GPC Speak up alittle louder the upper crust of the GPC will listen. mark

6/16/2002 7:14:25 AM

Puyallup, WA

Let us remember, they(GPC Directors)have to listen to other people besides us growers. The majority of sponsors have made it clear that they want "pumpkins", not "squash". Hummmm....sounds like the "Golden Rule" applies once again!

6/16/2002 12:15:21 PM

canal winchester ohio

Stan's right, we have NO say in the matter. In the past I've stated I'm not in it for the money & a lot of you agreed ( and I believe you), but if it comes down to what the sponsers want then "somebody" is in it for the money.....correct???
And I've heard the argument that it takes money to run the weighoffs. Well if we throw the prize money out the window ( we're not in it for the money...remember), then that leaves the cost of renting the scales, because everyone who comes can help out right??? I mean this is one big happy family...correct?? And as far as the site the weighoff is at, it could be about anywhere as long as the scales have been certified...correct?? What does it take to be a sanctioned site for the GPC ( I'm asking because I really don't know)
When you take away all the bells & whistles the weighoffs are pretty damn simple if you ask me.
You have certified scales, you have the manpower to help out & you weigh your fruit. Why has this become so complicated?
.........Just wondering.......Paul

6/16/2002 10:01:21 PM

Puyallup, WA

GPC sanctioning costs $500 per year.

6/17/2002 10:53:34 PM

Oz

DO ALL THESE "SPONSORS" HAVE PUMPKIN SPECIFIC PRODUCTS???
NOOOO. MONEY TALKS,,PITY. WOULD TOYOTA CARE IF A GREAT BIG PUMPKIN OR SQUASH WAS USED IN A COMMERCIAL FOR HOW TOUGH THIER TRUCKS ARE???OF COUSE NOT.
WHEN YOU DO WHAT THEY SAY FOR MONEY,,,,,,WELL YOU KNOW WHAT THAT INFERS.
THERE ARE MANY SPONSORS WITH TOOOOOOOO MUCH MONEY OUT THERE.
AND EXACTLY WHAT IS THE GENETIC DIFFERENCE?
COLOR ONLY?
COULD I POLLINATE A SQUASH WITH PUMPKIN POLLEN?
LETTING MARKETING EXECS RUN THE SHOW IS NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. IS IT ABOUT THE MONEY???LOL,PLEASE..HOW MUCH MONEY AND TIME HAS ANYONE PUT INTO GROWING? ADD IT UP. ER,,,NA DONT,,,IT MAY HURT!

8/4/2003 12:00:18 PM

Rocky-r@stny.rr.com

People people people...

It is amazing that the GPC did nothing again... The joke that when you see something with green in it is automatically a squash is just that.. a huge joke.. This has been a major issue at every weigh off for the past several years, and it seems that Hugh and the rest of the GPC steering committee has once again taken thier dictatorship to a new level..

When you walk up to a fruit, with eyes closed, and then open them, you know immediately, if not sooner, if it is a pumpkin gone green, or a squash. A squash is soooooo easy to tell, it isnt funny.. I challenge anyone to find a fruit they truthfully don't know what it is...

When people bring in the word money to this, that is a huge cop out on them wanting to admit, they knew the fruit they had couldnt compete with todays giant orange ones, so they have thier fruit sent to the squash category so they can get more prize money from that.. Plain and simple.. TO say sponsors this, and sponsors want that, is just plain bullhock. Sponsors dont care..

The world sees orange, yes.. but the world isnt the GPC.. the growers are...

The growers in Elmira, and the growers in Altoona (Checkons, CIliberto, Wolf, myself, and the vast majority) all agree that orange going green fruit are not squash... Please listen up GPC... It only taints the sport even more when you ignore the masses of growers.. How about other GPC sites? What do you think of the new ruling?

I for one.. think it totally stinks...Not a single change.. well, maybe even making it a bit worse when you take out cream from the pumpkin side..

**Still shaking my head over this one...

10/5/2003 10:47:22 AM

Covington, WA

Rocky, this is all old news. The GPC rules are there because sponsors want pumpkins, not squumpkins. Yeah, sometimes a fruit does start to go green late in the season. Does that make it a squash? No, it makes it a squumpkin. Everyone knows squash are green, pumpkins are anywhere from white to red, and squumpkins are those things you look at and go "what the hell happened here"? Joel Holland himself had a 986 if I remember right ruled a squash at the PNWGPG GPC event yesterday. The rules are applied regardless of who's fruit is affected. And they are only applied at the GPC events. If you want to take big squumpkins to a contest, have another contest where the sponsors don't care. It's not that complicated and needn't be controversial. Hope yours went heavy. Chris

10/5/2003 1:31:37 PM

Canton,Mass

As far as I can see, the argument is mute because the largest pumpikins/squash now grown are ORANGE. Besides there has to be some guide to determining what is a squash and what is a pumpkin.At the large sizes now grown, the typical "pumpkin" shape has all but dissapeared, so we need to take color into consideration. If I grew a 1500 pound purple pumpkin no one would agree that it was a "pumpkin".
Maybe we need DNA testing to determine what is a pumpkin and what is a squash.If color,shape,size,feel,smell,taste cannot determine the difference maybe DNA should.In my opinion a mature pumkin is orange,not cream,tan,blue or peach.Even a little kid knows that!

10/5/2003 8:20:07 PM

Oz

so what is a cream/orange/green fruit?
it grew on a plant from a dill seed.

10/5/2003 9:13:19 PM

Deer Park WA

If you want to see a clear and definate distinction between squash and pumpkins take a look at the Squash that were weighed off at Canby compared to the Pumpkins, Not only were the Squash huge they were ALL solid deep green, and the Pumpkins were just that orange to pale colered PUMPKINS.

I think it's sad when a pale colered pumpkin is classified as a "world record squash" just to yank the media/sponsors chain for attention when everyone knows pumpkins are orange squash are green.

10/6/2003 12:44:55 AM

The sponsors are definitely important to our hobby, but we are forgetting who is even more important ... the growers. The true squash growers are getting screwed because of bad application of rules. If the sponsors want a 75% orange pumpkin, give it to them, but don't put a PUMPKIN that does not meet the 75% rule into the squash category. It should simply be disqualified or entered in an open category.

For a long time people have been wondering why there aren't more squash growers .... maybe the possibility of getting beat by a non-squash entry (as the last few years have shown) is a reason?

10/6/2003 2:49:20 AM

Rocky-r@stny.rr.com

Amen brother Rock.. .well said... And as for sponsors, I looked around at our event, there was no sponsor to be found. Yeah, we got a few buckets of Jacks classic, a radio feed, Sam's Club who gave us use of the parking lot, but no where was there a sponsor telling us "NO GREEN FRUIT ALLOWED".. Maybe at some of your events there were these mythical sponsors who care, but not in PA. Please introduce me to one of these so called "sponsors who only want orange", and I will shut up. So far, I hear of them, but they are as mythical as big foot in my eyes.

Anyone got a name or contact for this mystery sponsor? I would like to call and talk to them personally..

10/6/2003 9:14:33 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

My completely unqualified two cents.

Perhaps it's time for a new class. "Squmpkins".

"Squash" are all green. Perioid.
"Pumpkins" are all orange. Period.
"Squmpkins" are everything else. Period.

No debate. EVER. Period.

A new category with a funny name might create more positive press for our sport whenever a "smile reader" article is needed in the papers or evening news.

To not recognize Squmpkins for what they are hurts the growers efforts that produce them. Usually without intent. Who wouldn't grow a 723 Bobier if they had it? Yet no one ever TRIES to grow a green & orange Squash or Pumpkin. It just happens. And when it happens in the final 2 or 3 weeks of the season, who's going to break the growers spirit with a DQ ruling. With all the best intentions, the Judges try to accomidate the grower by allowing the entry in 1 category or the other. But when this happens, someone gets hurt. Green or Orange, someone gets knocked down a peg & get's pissed. I would too.

To toss "Pumpkin" rejects into "Squash", hurts the Squash growers. To blindly include 50/50 green/orange fruit into "Pumpkin" hurts the gene pool of Pumpkins to some extent. (Enter controversial statement) *Especially since we perhaps should be trying to remove this trait from our lines.* But the current rulings do nothing to improve the desired goal since no penalty exists in "some" cases. It also harms the credibilty of the judges & our sport in general.

Mike at AGGC is so fed up with this he's going to now disregard questionable GPC rulings so that his genetic data maintains it's integrity. Good for him. But mark my words, some folks are going to claim false victories & losses by using Mikes determinationbs for their own gain. Guaranteed.

Bottom line. A new category would remove all subjectivity to this matter & we can move forward clearly.

Why is this so hard to

10/7/2003 9:41:28 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

do?

Steve

10/7/2003 9:43:48 AM

Key West, FL

Everything goes in pumpkin class except for true squash, 100% green from time of pollination, and you can tell what a true squash is. But really all these things are the same, pumpkins and squash.

10/7/2003 11:10:53 AM

Utah

why is this so hard to do ????? easy answer ....

because not every one sees it the way you see it and not everyone agrees with you-

there are MANY different ideas and opinions on this issue

...and we've all been here and done that...

why don't you all just agree with ME !!! then it would be so easy.... LOL !

:)

10/7/2003 11:43:48 AM

Morris, Connecticut

Who cares about color. Isn't it about growing the largest thing possible? I'd be proud to have a 1500 lb (or 1000 for that matter) fruit regardless of color or shape. Would be a shame to have a 1500lb "squash" not be considered for prizes simply because it turned 25% "squash" colors at the end of the season. In reality it would still be the largest thing ever grown.

10/7/2003 12:15:18 PM

Utah

steve-
even if there were 3 catagories... there would still be debate... there would still be controversy- not as much as we have now- but it would still be there. someone with a 99.5 % orange fruit would be real unhappy that he grew a pumpkin that a judge determined was a squmpkin. while at another weigh off a 95% orange fruit would be classified as a pumpkin (for what ever reason... and i can think of a few off hand)
there will always be some debate- even if we went with just one class....because pumpkins are orange and squash are not.
gordon

btw: steve in the last post "you"- means everyone- not just you... i was not wanting to have it sound like i singled you out but after reading it - i think i came across that way.

10/7/2003 12:17:41 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I think the "Squash Grower' who shows up with an all green 1000 lb Squash would care quite a bit if someone with a 1001 lb 95/5 got booted from the Pumpkin judging & knocked the "Squash Grower" out of first place. Neither would have intended for it to end this way. But the judge in this hypothetical case would have ruined an otherwise good year for 1 grower and possibly burdened the other with regret.

If all "Pumkins" were ruled to be 100% free of green on all visible sides, there would be little room for debate or interpretation. This would include creams of solid color.

If all "Squash" were 100% Green on all visible sides there would likewise be no room for debate.

And if any other multicolored fruit of any color were then called a "Squmpkin" & judged as such, then the Squash Growers would be safe from DQ'ed Pumpkins.

Don't worry g1t, I'm in sales. I cannot be offended. LOL I understood & agree.

I rest my case. Doesn't really matter much to me anyway. But there are some really hurt growers out there & I feel bad for them.

Steve

10/7/2003 12:58:24 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

I think that the Pumpkin / Squash issue will be a never ending controversy.

Similar to peace in the middle east.


That ought to stir the pollitical pot.

10/7/2003 7:56:50 PM

Deer Park WA

I have a new found respect for "Squash" 834 pounds worth. So many Cucerbites cross pollinate with each other it is doing an injustice to "pumpkins" by not defining the color cross between the two; yes genetically AG's are all squash. I, as do many others want to see green for "Squash" period, and white to orange for "Pumpkins". Squmpkins can go in the pumpkin catagory, but lets us as growers make "Green" reserved for Squash.

10/7/2003 11:21:50 PM

Ontario

I think the rules are fine just the way they are. By changing the rules now would create even more debate. GPC sent out photos to each site coordinator and I have seen them and they define very clearly what is a squash and what a pumpkin is. If you changed the rules as you suggest then this would create different squash records from state to state and possibably the world record. Tim Parks is one of the steering committee members and I imagine that they took a long hard look at Jerry Roses squash and made a sound judgement call, not based on outside influences(sponsors). By calling Jerry's squash a GPC squash your belittling Jerry's accomplishment. If you don't like the rules then take your fruit to another weigh off site. Sounds pretty simple to me.

10/8/2003 2:46:52 AM

Choctaw, OK

When are we going to see a true 1370 lb TRUE squash? Not for a long time...haven't even reached 1000 with a true greenie yet. I dont like the color rules, but nothing i can do about it. The 1367 was pretty orange looking to me. I saw more green in lantermans big 1100 lber.

case

10/8/2003 10:21:35 AM

Stouffville

the way i see it, the current colour rule sucks cause it takes away the glory from the true squash growers. They have to compete with pumpkin genetics which develop quicker cause more people are growing them. Jerry didn't plant the 723 plant with the intention of growing the world record squash...he wanted the world record pumpkin

10/8/2003 1:11:38 PM

Rhode Island

i have carefully read most of all replys and have come to the conclusion that the color issue is much like the issue of determining how many nongrowers show up with sombodys second pumpkin every year
as long as top ten site averages continue to be viewed as a point of stature within the gpc , and as long as certain people could care less about such things as honor and integrety ( i may have spelled that wrong-sorry ), then issues like squash vs pumpkin will linger on and on like a visit from your inlaws
i dont think there is much more our governing body can do then is already being done
dick w ripga

7/21/2004 9:55:43 PM

Western Pa.

Geez,

What sort of self-respecting, honorable, type of person would do such a thing? And much worse, what type of grower amongst the brotherhood of growers would allow this to be done with his pumpkin? I guess someone's definately missing the point, to most of us, it ain't about the money. I remember attending a local small fair one year, and I saw a mother and child counting the money he had "earned" in the junior division of the fair. (Almost $100!) The kid was still in diapers, and was just learning to walk, yet he grew some glorius produce! (I guess that there will be cheaters as long as you can cheat.) Shame on the guilty party! Your conscience should eat you alive!

7/22/2004 7:54:12 AM

Western Pa.

I forgot to add that the "parents" of the child, (and I use that term usely), own their own greenhouse and produce business, and they cleaned up at the fair also! Needless to say, I haven't frequented that fair or produce stand since! If GPC giant pumpkin fraud is suspected, maybe all pumpkins over 800# or the big money pumpkins need to be "field certified" before they're removed from the vine. If someone's using another man's work for his own gain, there should be a hefty fine, a flogging, and public humiliation!

7/22/2004 9:10:50 AM

Long Island,New York

Thats a cop-out Pap. You cannot look at a fruit and see who grew it....but you can look at a fruit and see what color it is..

7/22/2004 9:47:38 PM