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Nashville, TN

OK guys, looks like I may be doing this as an independant researcher and trying to get results published through TSU bio dep.

So I need real input as to observations that I am making during the germination period - insults as to seed varieties are not scientifically valid... I'm noticing a lower germination rate amongst the majority of the 'privately grown' GP varieties - as compared to the germination rate of the 'commercially grown' GP varieties.

Here are some of my hypothesis as to possible reasons for the difference:

1. methods of drying and storage of seeds?
2. possible effect of inbreeding depression (Commercial seed is O.P. while many of the Privately grown seed is selfed....)?

The plants that have germinated are currently growing fairly well... the commercial varieties germinated 4-5 weeks ago and are already developing flowers in the cold frame!!!

3/29/2005 1:07:17 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

The main reason will be we as hobby growers do not require germination tests to trade our seeds. Plus we keep our seeds in the pumpkins right up to halloween. If I was a commercial seed grower I would have a sheet stating at 52 days from pollination seeds are mature and should be collected.

3/29/2005 2:09:07 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Maybe the A.G.s have a thicker seed coat, than the Big Max and Prizewinners. this could account for poorer germination. A.G.s can be tricky to germinate.
Maybe those A.G.s that have germinated, are developing a large root system, to support the huge plant and pumpkin that will follow(maybe the Big Max and Prizewinners don't need such a large root systems). Just some thoughts.

Doug

3/29/2005 2:12:43 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Another reason might be that private seeds are often grown in messed about soil compared to normal field soil for the commercial ones.
That aside an AG seed is so big you should be able to spot a bad one from quite a long way away,I can only remember having one good looking seed fail to germinate.

3/29/2005 3:27:49 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

I think as a science project you should just stick with your observations of what you planted and how they respond..Variables as to what seed package you picked out of the store and what AG donations you decided to plant are not comparable...On the hole Big Max will reach somewhere in the 300 lb range not saying any of these guys here couldn't do better but as a max size that's about right..AG's on the other hand will blow out of your 6" peat pot under proper conditions in three days..What Big Max's or howden consider optimum might not be what AG's like...Give it a week and see where the plants are...bet ya right now..big max's can't keep up with a good AG.. Grow em Big! Ben thre dun that! Chuck

3/29/2005 5:19:37 PM

Cincinnati,OH

I think most AG seeds sprout between 3 to 7 days. The speed of germination has no relationship to plant performance as far as I can tell.

The store seed is tested for germination so I would think germination results would be more consistant.

From what I understand AG does not exhibit a great deal of inbreeding depression.

I can send you some of my fastest germinating seeds if you want to test with them.

I can't wait until the middle of June when your AG vines start growing 6" plus a day, your going to be amazed!

3/29/2005 8:07:21 PM

Napa Valley, CA

Generally speaking, AG's have a thicker or harder seed coat than most other pumpkin varities. The germination rate is usually high if the seed is properly filed and soaked prior to germination. With filing and soaking I usually have 95% or better germination on "privately grown" AG seeds. This includes seeds that are 5 or 6 years old. Also the fact that some competitive AG growers use more than a normal amount of calcium (both on the plant and on the pumpkin) may make for "harder" seeds which would be more difficult to germinate.
You're right, the method of drying and seed storage can be a factor in germination however most competitive growers that I know are doing this properly.
I think that "inbreeding depression" may effect other characteristics but has little or no effect on the rate of germination.

3/29/2005 11:56:35 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Is this commercially grown vs. privately grown, or is it

AG vs. Prizewinner vs. Big Max ???


If you're comparing AG vs. other varieties that can be
considered big, well, I think you already have your answer.
AG is just a different variety. Their fruit grows to at least
6X heavier than the other varieties. No offense, but I've
never heard of a Big Max at 300 pounds. Maybe it has
happened, but I think Prizewinner tops out at around 200
and Big Max is even less than that. (Well, truth be told,
I hate Big Max... I can grow larger pepo (field) pumpkins
than Big Max and have more reliable results... but that is
my own soap box.)

The AG is known to require a little heat (like 85 degrees)
to get them started. I'm not sure about the other two
large varieties, but field pumpkins will germinate at much
lower temperatures.

3/30/2005 11:22:04 AM

Nashville, TN

I'm using both commercial Dill's AG along with the Big Max and Prizewinners (all I consider of O.P. origin...)

I have been in conversation with Dean Martin at TSU Bio Department - in order to set up base study charts.. EVERYTHING must be noted.. From germinations, to soil/air temp to soil/air moisture, to amount of sun vs clouds.. Each of these factors may affect the final outcome - and various studies can be pulled just from the records of one summer's study. Although my base hypothesis for study is: Heat tolerance in GP varieties... The entire study could be re-examined to find different limiting factors for the entire GP life cycle.

All donations of seed varieties for study will be highly appreciated!! I'm discussing yet another well-fertilized horse paddock to be utilized for more beds (since these are winter paddocks - the 'fertilizor's' will be out of them all summer..) My Engineer Fiancee' doesn't mind - less mowing **grin**

Anyone that needs some seeds - All of the extras not utilized in this summer's study will be freely forwarded if you send SASBE...

Scienceteacher Mrs Peck
1001 Thomas rd
Burns, TN 37029

3/31/2005 1:50:44 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

...also, the bigger the seed, the lower the germination rates as the years go bye...

4/6/2005 1:12:04 AM