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Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

I am wondering if certin lines do better on heavy clay soils. We know that some lines are more tollerent to heat. In other crops i.e. corn, soybeans, there are definatly differences between genetic lines on soil type preferance. I would be intrested in hearing from growers that have had success on clay soil and what lines are working for them!

11/8/2005 7:59:46 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Dang John I'm as curious as you are. I know we're not the only ones with clay soil.

I wonder if you can simply ammend the soil to increase drainage by dumping sand or something? It should be cheap enough compared to the other things we all do.

I've been too scared to put the leaves down but I gotta make a decision in the next week or so. -Jim

11/9/2005 3:54:19 PM

Utah

I don't think different seeds to better in different soil types ... the key is to add OM to what ever kind you have.
My soil started out as a heavy clay ... and it is still clay ...
there have been other threads on clay soil... I think the main thought was to build it new soil up above it.

11/9/2005 5:05:57 PM

Indiana

dont add sand you will have somthing close ot cement add organic matter!

11/10/2005 9:42:33 AM

Ontario, Canada.

That is a very interesting topic. I would like to know if any info could be found.

You might start with Andy Wolfe's file for soil tests. Some of the data may lead you to an answer. Andy has a lot of info rolled into a spread sheet that has pumpkin size and OM content for a lot of growers. It could help to determine if there is any size correlation to low OM at least. Plugging in the CEC data may further assist in some conclusion.

Russ

11/10/2005 1:13:15 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

That makes sense about the cement, dog. Thanks.

John are you looking for a plant which is predisposed to having a hearty, thick root system which can penetrate the deeper, dense soils? That is how I interpreted your question. My personal concerns have to do with drainage issues- I'm not sure OM is the answer; I'll have plenty of manure.

11/10/2005 2:54:08 PM

Ga.

For the ones with clay soil,,whats your average depth before you hit clay? Mines about 8" down and I'm in red clay...

11/10/2005 3:05:58 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

about the same, maybe even a little deeper in the older areas of my garden.

11/10/2005 4:26:30 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

Clay soils tend to be poorer drained and more suseptable to compaction. After we tromp all over them all summer they get packed very hard. The addition of OM will help this situation. I have also heard that the addition of "concrete" sand will help to loosen it up. Concrete sand is a coarse grade. Addition of finer types will undoutably make cement.
In my case, I have 6-8" high PH, Clay-Clay loam topsoil, over 3-4 feet gumbo clay subsoil. I put in tile drainage this fall. This should help to airate and warm the patch earlier in the season. I also have added copious amounts of organic material the last two falls. I recognise it will likely take several years to alter the soil structure.
Where i'm going with this post is that in other crops, there are biotypes that do better on heavy soils than others. I suspect that there are genetic lines that have performed well in these conditions. If anyone has a heavy clay soil and grown 1000 +, lets here from Ya!

11/10/2005 8:54:37 PM

Canada

When I first started Mine was about 10" down then solid clay after a few years of double digging and tilling in allot of additives i can dig down in spots close to 24" before I hit clay now

Dave

11/10/2005 9:10:50 PM

Ontario, Canada.

The point you make is easily understable. I agree. The notion of seed acclimatization is widely accepted in this forum. Why not apply this premise to the soil?

11/11/2005 7:13:47 AM