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No Place Special

I find it kind of interesting that the 1370 Rose throws mostly nice dark colored fruit. The 1370 itself was a light colored pumpkin, the 1260 mother was light colored almost squash looking and the 712 father was also very light color or almost white. The closest colored ancestor is I think the 846 Calai which was the 1370's grandfather? Just looking over the genetic background I would have guessed the 1370 offspring going orange would be the exception not the rule. I mean how many of us plant seeds that have nice orange throughout the genetics only to end up with an ugly duckling when seeds like the 1370 that I would guess to throw medium or light colored fruit throw mostly nice orange?! Just something I have been pondering and thought it might make a good off season discussion. Would like to hear Welty's reply to this.

11/9/2005 11:19:20 AM

canal winchester ohio

Mike, I think I remember Craig saying that the 1260 was a lot more orange than most pics show. The pic he sent me of it a couple of years back with the seed was of a bright orange pumpkin.
I grew Bob Liggett's 664 this year, last year it grew a 1300+ squmpkin for him. This year my 384 off of it was bright orange. I guess you never really know.

11/9/2005 2:42:46 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

I've thought the same thing about the 1370.

11/9/2005 3:53:26 PM

Indiana

maybe the 712 wasnt really the father? It is easy to grab pollen off the wrong plant. Based on phenotypic traits, the 1370 appears to have 1260 and 801.5 or 869 calai in it. As for growing the 1370 and crossing, I am going to approach it as if it was 1260 x 801.5. The 801.5 Jerry had that year was a freak.

Is this the reason they are orange? I dont know...but thats the assumption I have chosen to take.

Tom

11/9/2005 4:46:13 PM

Waquoit Mass

the 1260 was not very orange isaw it at topsfield. interestingly the 500 plus pumpkin that came off the 846 polinator was a beauty . saw it at marshfield dave

11/9/2005 4:56:38 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

This may be way out in left field, but what are the chances that the color came from the soil composition. Could it be possible, in Jerry's patch, some balance of Nutrients set off the color trait of the offspring.
Why does the 670 Daigle throw out a beautiful deep orange in Germany, and throw a rather ugly off colored pumpkin for other growers. The 1016 Daletas throws some wicked great color, but in a patch in Idaho, it barely had any color at all.
Quinn Werner grows awsome colored pumpkins, as he did with the 845 Nesbitt, and Dan Carlson in Iowa grows a Squash from the same seed.
I'm starting to believe more and more, that each individual patch has as much to do with the genetic balance of the fruit, as the seed does. Hense the color variations.
Also why has the 723, and 845 Bobier done so well, when many of their remakes did so so. I think again due to soil conditions making individual trait become dominant. Bill also did 2 more of the same cross, the 714 and the 838, again nothing above normal, but since growing the 723, and 845, he had taken at least one year off, which may have made a difference, or maybe something as simple as getting manure from a different location.
Why can some growers excell at a seed one year and bomb the next. I would think that somewhere in the patch prep, from one year to the next, something changed, rather than saying the seed is a dud.
Ok I'm done rambling now.
Eddy

11/9/2005 10:36:22 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Eddy......Luck of the genetic draw.

11/9/2005 11:07:12 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Eddy,
Interesting, but the 1370 seems to consistantly produce nice colored pumpkins in a variety of locations. Tom's theory may be a possibility. I hope Jerry Rose chimes in.
The 1370 seed had a fine year, and hopefully it will prove a consistant producer of large fruit.

11/9/2005 11:14:11 PM

Ohio

The 1260 I grew this year had a nice orange, It would have been even been a better orange if it wasnt for the skin cantaloping, and the spots on the pumpkin that didnt had a great orange color.It had the same color bright orange as the smaller 1370 pumpkins I grew this year also. Mike, you need to grow my 699,lol.

11/10/2005 5:26:42 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan (michiganpumpkins@sbcglobal.net)

Have to agree with you, Mike. 1260 x 712 just doesn't equal orange. Or shouldn't, anyway. Judging from other offspring of 1260 and certainly 712, it's quite surprising to see consistent color out of 1370. The 846 in its ancestry would have to be the source, but remember that 846 doesn't really throw great consistent color either. There's way more Lloyd lineage than Stelts on both sides of the 1370 and you would think the Lloyd color would prevail in that gene combination. I'm sure there's some genetic explanation that involves dominant/recessive traits and alleles and some guy named Mendel. Tom's theory is interesting, but I'm sticking with what Jerry says it is. Not sure how Jerry stuffed orange into that cross, but I ain't complaining.

11/10/2005 7:16:49 AM

Long Island,New York

I firmly believe that the only reason the remakes of the 723/845 arent as successful is because they havent been grown enough by the right people in the right place at the right time with the right attitude.

11/10/2005 3:53:50 PM

wilmington,ma.

My 2 cent's I grew the 1370 Rose this year,and crossed it with the 869.5 Calai.It was a real nice orange.Great plant!

11/10/2005 3:59:04 PM

No Place Special

nice cross ahab! 869 was nice orange also?

11/10/2005 4:15:10 PM

Syracuse, NY

HEY Glenn....bring that up at the SEMINAR as well.
i totally agree with it! oh, that's right, you made a couple. i better start walkin' the walk if i agree with it
so much...hmmmm.......

11/10/2005 5:48:47 PM