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No Place Special

With every passing year it seems that there becomes more interest in the "nice looking" pumpkins instead of the squmpkins mostly grown in the past. Its about time if you ask me. The GPC has even taken a step to separate pumpkin from squash by awarding money to true orange and true green fruit. This action should help to reduce the amount of squmpkins in the coming years. I have always favored the nice looking orange ones but like many, felt that the really orange ones were inferior when it comes to weight vs size. I think in many cases this is true but I do believe the scales are starting to tip a little in the other direction. I would love to hear others opinions, thoughts and predictions on this and on what might be ideal Big orange and shiny producing seeds, especially from the 05 crop.

12/22/2005 9:34:25 PM

No Place Special

Also i would like to hear who is starting to convert to the orange pumpkins and who else like me is trying to breed the perfect Big Orange and Shiny pumpkin growing seed.

12/22/2005 9:39:57 PM

No Place Special

Ok, its not that difficult to find a seed that will probably produce orange but to find one that is almost a sure fire bet to produce orange and on top of that, the nice shiny, head turning, jaw dropping, smooth and shiny orange is a rare find for sure. Of the seeds that im aware of, the 1233 Reise, 764 Young, 781.5 Frantz and All of Steve Zuhlkes seeds fit this bill. I hope that some other growers will add to this list what they think will produce Big Orange and Shiny.

12/22/2005 10:11:10 PM

No Place Special

I have put a great deal of thought into my 781.5 and believe this cross should be a winner in the Big Orange and Shiny producing seeds. Steve Zuhlke also has a master mind when it comes to making a good seed because his 615 and 390 are the same and reverse cross! I believe the 390 Zuhlke, 615 Zuhlke and the 781.5 Frantz will be superior in this regard and here is why...

12/22/2005 10:21:35 PM

Eugene,OR

I like the chances that Bruce Whittier's 953 that he grew this year will throw a beautiful, orange, heavy pumpkin. The 953 was grown on the 670 Daigle and was crossed with the 1180 Daletas.

12/22/2005 10:33:30 PM

No Place Special

LOOK AT THE FAMILY TREE!!!
Mother- 1101 Northrup- Dark and shiny smooth
Father- 1125 Frantz- Dark and shiny smooth
Grand Mother1- 670 Daigle- Dark and shiny smooth
Grand Father1- 810 Dill- ?
Grand Mother2- 869 Calai- medium
Grand Father2- 1225 Jutras- Dark and shiny smooth
GGMother1- 810 Dill-?
GGMother2- 920 Cole- Dark and shiny smooth
GGMother3- 846 Calai- Medium
GGMother4- 1016 Daletas- Medium
GGFather1- 1230 Daletas- Medium
GGFather2- 715 Dill- Medium
GGFather3- 801.5 Stelts- Medium
GGFather4- 845 Bobier- Light
GGGMother1- 920 Cole- Dark and shiny smooth
GGGMother2- 705 Stelts- ?
GGGMother3- 567 Wallace-?
GGGmother4- 567 Mombert- Medium
GGGMother5- 801 Stelts- Medium
GGGMother6- 825 Shymanskie- Dark
GGGMother7- 705 Stelts- ?
GGGMother8- 935 Lloyd- Medium
GGGFather1- 715 Dill- Medium
GGGFather2- 846 Calai- Medium
GGGFather3- 567 Wallace- ?
GGGFather4- 804 Zehr- Medium
GGGFather5- 876 Lloyd- ?
GGGFather6- 562 Rose- ?
GGGFather7- 846 Calai- Medium
GGGFather8- 865 Mettler- Light

12/22/2005 10:39:54 PM

No Place Special

A quick mention about some of the more famous seeds in the background...
846 Calai- Produced 21 pumpkins over 1000 lbs, ranked 2nd in 1000 lbers ever grown and the 846 can be found three times in the background!

845 Bobier- 19 pumpkins over 1000 lbs and is ranked 4th in all time for producing 1000 plus lbers.

869 Calai- 3 over 1000 and know for Beautiful offspring. On of them is my 1125 Frantz.

810 Dill-3 over 1000 (mother of the 670 Daigle)and offspring have great shape and color.

670 Daigle- FAMOUS for its color and its offsprings color. Has produced 3 over 1000 lbs one being the 1233 Reise.

1225 Jutras- 3 over 1000 lbs (1443 included)

1230 Daletas- 3 over 1000 lbs and very nice orange offspring

1016 Daletas- (same cross as 1230 and grown on same plant) 6 over 1000 lbs and 3 over 1200 lbs, nice orange also!

801.5 Stelts- 6 over 1000 and very famous for orange offspring.

12/22/2005 10:53:11 PM

No Place Special

Now you know I went to all this work to help growers out and not to promote my seed right? LOL! Well a little info (promoting) goes a long way. I publicly talked up my 1125 last year expressing the potential I thought it had and it resulted in enough people growing it to produce a 1200 lb pumpkin and 3 over 900 in its first year. Oh I should mention that the male pollinator (1125) to the 781.5 grew the 918.5 Walters, also a nice color orange and great shape. The 781.5 Frantz, 918.5 Walters and the 1125 Frantz can be seen in my diary. Im sure that Steve Zuhlke has a pic of his pumpkins in his diary as well. He also made a post on Seed Exchange offering his seeds. To be honest I have MANY bubble packs and seed requests to fill so if your interested in GROWING a 781.5 Frantz then send me an email and Ill give you my address to send a bubble to. Best of luck to everyone and I hope you find a seed that produces BIG, ORANGE and SHINY for you in 2006.

Mike Frantz

12/22/2005 11:21:16 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Interesting post Mike!
I'm hoping to make a nice cross or two, with orange and shiny as the objective. I'm partial to pumpkins that look nice. Good shape is also an objective. Your 781.5 had excellent color IMO.
When looking for a good color seed, I like to look at the color of both the mother and father, in judging it's color potential. Two seeds that seem promising are the 1008.4 Reiss and the 710.5 Companion IMO. I love the shape of the 1008.4 Reiss, and it went quite heavy. The 710.5(810 Dill X 1016 Deletas) had great color. I've heard if three growers that grew it this year, and from what I've heard, it seems promising.
I hope you get many more replies and opinions.

12/23/2005 1:21:54 AM

Syracuse, NY

i should have sent you a pic of the 1125 X 1097.5 (Gerry 501)back when you were making a diary montage of all the fruit that had come from the 1125...it was a really really nice-looking pumpkin, ORANGE, incredibly uniformly by the weigh, but not SHINY, lol. you'll see when you get the
pumpkin CD! the 1140 Stelts and 689.5 Sandercock, , each produced the prettiest orangest and shiniest pumpkins i think i have ever grown, my 194 est. '05 and 352 official, respectively.
EACH was pollinated by the 1097.5 Beachy in '05.
i am very surprised how few people have grown the 1140 Stelts as far as registered goes; myself, Buddy Conley, i believe, and Gary Miller, a few of us....must be more....
it is a GREAT orange-injector for the 845 Bobier;
look at the 735 Drake '02
(728.5 Gerry (845 X 1140) x 1049 Holland)
on the AGGC...yum! i could never rave loudly enough about the 689.5 Sandercock, though...if THAT seed gets over 1k#,
we are in for a sight to see! my nickle's worth...eric

12/23/2005 1:36:21 AM

Syracuse, NY

gee, i don't know, mike......
810 Dill and 801.5 Stelts and 670 Daigle,
Mombert 940 '00......
those four wheels are already spinning!
but....the next generation is in OUR hands, isn't it...eg

12/23/2005 1:39:44 AM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

Big & Beautiful Pumpkins

2005 Weight
(lbs) Grower Female Male # SEED
per pkt. Price OTY. TOTAL
1247.0 (d) D. Tingley 500 Northrup ‘04 1059 R. Wentzell ‘04 1 10.00
1233.5 (e)
M. Reiss
670 Daigle '03
801.5 Stelts '97
1
15.00

1073.0 uow
K. Companion
1247 Handy'03
961 Daletas '01
1
10.00

1008.4
M. Reiss
801.5 Stelts '97
Self
1
10.00

1002.0
J. Sherwood
811 Stucker '04
670 Daigle '03
1
10.00

959.0
R. Wentzell
810 Dill'99
670 Daigle '03
2
8.00

904.0
B. Northrup
670 Daigle '03
965 Northrup'04
2
8.00

902.0
D. Tingley
629 Northrup '04
Open
2
8.00

891.0 (f)
D. Northrup
810 Dill'99
1230 Daletas '01
2
8.00

834.0
B. Northrup
1101 Northrup'04
1230 Daletas '01
2
8.00

698.0
D. Daigle
846 Jutras '03
1370 Rose'03
3
6.00

667.0
T. Kline
1210 Kline'04
1016 Daletas '01
3
6.00

589.0
H. Dill
670 Daigle '03
846 Calai '99
3
6.00

587.0
D. Dill
788 Companion '02
869 Calai '00
3
6.00

578.0
D. Daigle
670 Daigle '03
1370 Rose'03
3
6.00

577.0
H. Dill
846 Calai '99
810 Dill'99
3
6.00

530.0
D. Dill
757.5 Companion '02
810 Dill'99
3
6.00

516.0
H. Dill
932 Steeves '03
846 Calai '99
3
6.00

505.0
H. Dill
810 Dill'99
869 Calai '00
3
6.00

Here's my dream list off Howard Dill's site. Now only if I hadn't spent all my money at auctions!

12/23/2005 6:00:25 AM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

Thanks for all the plugs Mike. I have to give credit were it is due. Martin is the man responsible for making the 1101 x 1125 and reverse crosses posible. Bill Northrup is my hero. When Martin made the suggestion to make the 1101 x 1125 cross Bill got the seed to me in a nick off time. I had never been in contact with him before and he was more than willing to help a new grower out. I have some big plans for the next couple of years that involve the 1370 Rose, 670 Daigle,1101 Northrup,1230 Daletas,1016 Daletas, 500 Northrup and many more. There are so many good ones to choose from that I might have to put them in a hat and draw them out.Oh and I might grow my seeds too. lol.

12/23/2005 6:12:43 AM

Netherlands

Steve, I think you have done some excellent PR with your seeds, trying to promote orange. My wife actually promised to grow your 621 (1101 x self) seed if I could prove to her it would be a great looking orange pumpkin.

I will also be growing a 670 x self cross in 2006.

If anybody can get their hands on a 874 Dill 03, do so by all means. Not a well-known seed but it produces round and orange (at least for me). I selfed it last year and grew the selfed seed this year. It was the most beautiful orange you can find and round.

12/23/2005 7:05:42 AM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

Thanks Brad. I hope your wife has good luck with the 621.One seed I forgot to mention that will hit the dirt in my patch is the 1029.5 Kurilich. The 802 that Joe grew from that seed was a beauty. It was very round, smooth,and great color. It went heavy to the 2005 chart also.

12/23/2005 8:14:31 AM

Western NY

Brad - there was a grower that brought a pumpkin to Cooperstown this year off the 874. amazing color! it was DMG from some kind of a split if I remember. the pic can be seen here: http://nysgpga.com/images/Weighoff/Brian%20Bell%20782_resize.JPG

I myself will likely be putting in at least one for orange, but I'd like to get one in that's a blaze orange. However, the top spots are going to the heavyweights, which look to be on the whiter side of things. I have a breeding plan that should bring in a little color to things, but I'm not expecting the glowing orange that I would like.

12/23/2005 8:23:07 AM

van isle b.c. canada

well guys i have to admit i find myself slowly going over to the orange side myself ever since i grew that 869,5 that i had laying around for years :o) this year its the 1370 , 1233 and a 670 that a hell of a guy donated to me. i have room for one more orange seed and thats where the problem is. there is so many i,d like to grow i can,t decide. any ideas ? merry xmas to all and all the best next year. craig

12/23/2005 9:59:50 AM

Indiana

I made a cross of the 1370 Rose and the 901 Hebb and the reverse, hopefully it will throw big and beautiful. The 901 throws very good shaped and colored pumpkins like a giant Howden.

12/23/2005 10:41:54 AM

Halifax, Nova Scotia

I like big and orange, and although I'd be willing to accept a little less orange for a little more big, I don't think these days that there's any need to make a comprimise on colour just to get size. There's plenty of seeds out there that have proven the ability to throw big orange pumpkins. My garden next year will include a 670 Daigle, and a 775 Dill. I know both will throw orange, I hope both will throw big. Both ahve proven that they can do both, and I'm hoping the cross will work to solidify bigger and more orange pumpkins from my own seed stock.

12/23/2005 10:59:32 AM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Mike, you should have mentioned that the top 3 on the Anamosa Pumpkinfest float were bright orange, although not as nice shaped as your "prettiest pumpkin" winner. It looks like the orange ones are getting bigger. I also had a very bright, shiny orange one grown on the 808 Beachy that would have given your's a challenge if it hadn't split 4 days before the runoff. I crossed that with a 727 pearce, which is also orange and has produced some 1000+ pumpkins. I will be growing that, along with some others that might not be as orange but may be bigger.

12/23/2005 11:32:34 AM

Norton, MA

I LIKE SQUMPKINS!!!! But all you meanies keep teasing me and calling me ugly. Wa Wa Wa! Up with UGLY! LOL. AleX Noel.

12/23/2005 11:38:49 AM

Utah

Mike

I have always been an orange fan. Some years more than others. As of now in 06 I plan on growing Big Orange. I'm feel a lot like Craig... There are always lots more seeds than plots. I have some nice seeds but I'm still hoping for a 1370 for 06 too.

Gordon

12/23/2005 11:54:18 AM

Ca

Great thread! I'm interested in how people would define the terms shiny, dark, blaze orange, etc. And, how are these traits espressed in the progeny of various well-known seeds, such as 801 Stelts, 846 and 869 Calai, 810 Dill, 1101 Northrup, 845 Nesbitt, etc. Some of the brightest, often orange-red, pumpkins also seem to have a slightly blotchy look, like a lot of Big Max pumpkins. Are there seeds that are known for uniformity of color, in addition to those other terms?
With regard to judging color based on photos, it is very difficult. Often, two photos of the same pumpkin taken the same day will look dramatically different. I'm planning to do a diary next year, and intend to put orange reference objects in the photo, so people can evaluate color (examples: Stihl chain saw,orange sodas,orange acorn squash, traffic cones)

12/23/2005 1:07:50 PM

SF Bay Area, California

Mike, I have been trying for big and orange for over five years. Probably lost a few competitions because of my orange fetish, but for me if it ain't orange it ain't a pumpkin. I've never liked squash since my momma used to force feed me that green slimy stuff when I was a kid....

There is one big and orange seed that hasn't been mentioned here and has been under planted. It's Little David, the 981 Zunino. This is a 1240 Daletas x 1048 Companion. Both plants produced big and orange. The 1048 Companion pollinator produced both Lilu, 997 and Bubbles, 487.

Bubbles was voted the most beautiful pumpkin at the Half Moon Bay weigh-off in California. The 1048 Companion by the way is a 810 Dill x 801 Stelts which makes the 981 a similar cross to the 670 Daigle only both parent plants' offspring were bigger!

I'm planning on growing the 981 seed this year but I'm still working on what all to cross it with. Something big and orange....

You want orange and shiny take a look at the champions:

http://zunino.net/champions.htm

The next link is the story of Bubbles at the Half Moon Bay weigh off:

http://zunino.net/bubbles/

vince

12/23/2005 1:26:23 PM

Mt.Pleasant,Iowa

My 250 Schnicker should make a nice round orange one.1101 Northrup x 869.5 Calai. Dont let the size fool ya.

12/23/2005 1:27:41 PM

Ca

802 Bhaskaran '05 is 981 Zunino '04 x 759 Bhaskaran '04. 1048 Companion on both sides. Also, is anybody planning to make a Frazukie cross this year? (390 Zuhlke '05 or 615 Zuhlke '05 x 781.5 Frantz '05)

12/23/2005 2:12:07 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

The 826.5 Shymanski (1016 Daletas X 1385 Daletas) grew a beauty for me this year. In the right patch, it could be a real winner. The 689.5 Sandercock has also grown some real beauties for me and our group. Like Eric, I'd sure like to see one grow to over 1000 lbs.

12/23/2005 2:12:35 PM

Long Island,New York

Other than zucchini what green slimey squash could you have possibly be forced to eat?...most squash at the table are icky orange or yellow.

12/23/2005 3:15:11 PM

Utah

Vince

There are lots of big and orange seeds that haven't been mentioned here.
Companion - Stucker - etc ...etc.
aren't everyone's seeds underplanted?

12/23/2005 3:15:15 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I can vouch for the 981 Zunino. Most perfect shiny true
orange that I've ever grown, by far. Not only that, the plant
itself was very aggressive and robust. -Cliff

12/23/2005 4:08:38 PM

SF Bay Area, California

When I grew up, I thought there was only one squash in the world because it was the only squash I had to swallow. You guessed it - it was green and it was zucchini. Nothing better for a growing boy than some watery, slippery, tasteless, boiled zucchini slop all piled high and oozing fluids onto the plate.....

Most pumpkin crosses are underplanted except for the glorified few. Some of the glorified seeds deserve their reputations, most do not and are over planted as a result.

Unfortunately, there are very few orange producers that are in the glorified category....

vince

12/23/2005 4:32:10 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Only G......Merry Christmas!

12/23/2005 7:59:03 PM

Butler,PA(Blueman286@zoominternet.net)

An overlooked, underplanted orange producer from 2004 is the 897.5 Davies(845 Bobier X 1260Weir). 2 entries grown in 2005 listed on AGGC, both with nice orange color. The 805Davies was 13.4% heavy and the 1248.8Ford was 3.8% heavy. Looking at the 1248 picture, it "bears" a striking resemblance to the 1370 fruit we grew this year. Nice orange color and heavy to chart, just needs more growers. It is getting serious consideration here.
Chip

12/23/2005 9:13:39 PM

Mill Creek West by god Virginia

i grew a 901hebb in 2004 i selfed it got 450lbs out of it it was almost perfectly round and the prettiest orange,this season several of my growers here grew the 450 and all got pretty orange round fruit one grower got it over 900lbs several over 500lbs i got to say it the 450-901 throws pretty orange

12/24/2005 2:36:15 AM

New Hampshire

Chip,
When I first laid my eyes on the 897 Genetics last year, I asked myself, "Why should I NOT plant this seed". I am glad I didn't find one. I can understand why unproven (unplanted)seeds are not planted. I don't want to toot my own horn but I don't understand the lack attention it is getting.
I have to admit I didn't plant it for thr orange and was surprized when those 846 genes through the 1260 dominated the color. Heavy is what I am after and if I get the orange it's all gravy. I heard John Doucet say "The stock of Davies seeds just went up", when my 1248 hit the scale.
Maybe there is some secret backroom trading happening,(probably in Massachusetts). If you like big, orange and smooth This seed should be given some more serious consideration.

12/24/2005 7:49:33 AM

Norton, MA

One seed that never really got considered is the 481 Hester(582 X 846). After loosing a 1016, 783, 1097.5, 1458, 953, 675 and 2 others in 2004 I planted it just because of the really huge seed it was. A fruit blew at 120 lb. at 30 days because of horrible shape but none of the others on the plant looked like it so I think it was just a fluke. Then I let the plant go until around Aug. 2 when I found a fruit that had been open pol. in a tangle of vines at 50 lb. that was 14 days at max because it hadn't been there when I went around the last time to cut before the other one split. It got to 516 by Oct. 2 and it was a beautiful macaroni orange, not really dark but like a regular pumnpkin. That was on less than 150 sq. ft. on a late July pol. AleX Noel.

12/24/2005 10:52:23 AM

Southeast

I grew the 472 Garrell in o3. It was from the 122 Herman 940 00 Mombert crossed with the 705 Stelts. It was incredible long and orange. This one was grown on a single vine to that size. I crossed the 122 with the 801 Stelts that grew my 736 03( neon orange). This one has a ton of bright ornge in it. Love to see it grown. Anyone interested let me know if youre commited to planting it. Dave

12/24/2005 11:34:38 AM

Lake Elmo, Minnesota

I grow only for orange, round, ribbed and no cantelouping. I've grown for 3 years and looked at hundreds of pictures on AGGC. By far, the most consistent seed for these qualities is the 869.5 Calai, used as the FEMALE, not the pollinator. I've been lucky to get seeds from Ned Sandercock who did 869.5 x self for his 689 in either '03 or '04. There are remakes that I don't recall now, but Glenn of North Shore Boyz would. Many people claim "deep orange pumpkins", but they pale next to any of the progeny from 869.5 Calai that have no other pollinators. Others like 801.5 Stelts, 846 Mombert, etc....give elongated shapes or other unwanted characteristics. I don't anything about growing a pumpkin over 1000 pounds, but plenty about the above mentioned characteristics.

1/7/2006 11:45:05 PM

Lake Elmo, Minnesota

Mike:
Would like to see some e-mail pictures of your most orange pumpkins and talk seed trades.

1/7/2006 11:46:50 PM

Norton, MA

If anybody wants, I did 869.5 X self in 03. E-mail me. AleX Noel.

1/8/2006 10:03:35 AM