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Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Most of us pollinate in the morning. Eddleman experimented with afternoon pollinations so as to reduce aborts in the heat of the day.

After all the aborts I had this year I kind of like this idea.

Does anyone use this technique?

12/31/2005 5:02:07 PM

North Smithfield, RI USA

Afternoon pollinations are fine for those who don't work days ! However for me it's either early morning or early evening ! I think early morning is better since I can be up before the birds and bees and got my thinking cap on !

12/31/2005 5:12:58 PM

sevierville, Tn

That may be a good idea, especially when heat is a problem.
How long does the female stay viable?? How about the pollen?

12/31/2005 6:22:04 PM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

I had many aborts last season also. One thing I tried in late July was to check the females that would be opening the next morning. I then would pollinate them at 3:30 am before I leave for work. This worked well in the last couple pollinations that I did. I also used frozen two liter bottles and shade with good results.

12/31/2005 8:15:03 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Okay Steve, you said you were gonna start this topic, so I will ask the same ?'s to all. If I am going to pollinate in the evening, do I peel open a female that would open the next morning, or cover an open female for the whole day. Control of males seems to have been covered before...pick, isolate, and refrigerate...good for a couple of days??? Re-warm before pollination? This process would seem to eliminate heat abort problem...assuming that nights are cooler in your locale. All input appreciated. Peace, Wayne

12/31/2005 8:34:05 PM

Norton, MA

I wouldn't peel it the night before, it will abort right then. AleX Noel.

12/31/2005 8:37:23 PM

Simi valley, ca

well im not an expert , but it would seem to me that if nature intended to pollenate in early morning- than that would be the best chance for a successfull pollenation,. & if heat is reason for concern than as early as possable would be best it may be the first 5 hrs or so thats most important so get it done before the 1;00--3;00 oclock heat,, heat is a concern here it was 100* everyday in july(last),. my idea is to shade the area befor it gets too hot , have atleast 2ft before & 2 ft after pompkin shaded intire day , you dont want ground hot eather, nor do you want main coming into pumpkin hot, use ice bottels & cut out styrofome icechest ,,BE CARFULL not to cold i put thermometer under with ice & found out it gets too cold need to prop up ,adjust temp to 75- 80* , i dont think its a good mix 100* pluss then main coming into a pumpkin thats 65*-70* too much shock,,, anyways my heat pollenations have been successfull,, hope for same to you & me next yr !!!

12/31/2005 10:25:46 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I think Glenn's point is valid. However I then consider the fact that the males pollen hasn't fully risen until mid-late morning. So at least some of the "natural/open" pollination would occur as soon as bees awake & take flight. But bees work all day & obviously run into the most male pollen after 9:00 AM. I usually pollinate before 6:00 AM & therefore have to warm males that I have collected the night before on my oven door for a couple hours.

Eddleman's early evening theory centers around his wanting the newly fertilized female to not encounter high heat during the critical hours following the "deed".

Here in southern CT the fist days of July can get pretty hot & therefore the most succesful growers start very early in the year & set fruit in late June. But this technique makes for a very nerve wracking September as the slowing fruit have to sit in the patch doing almost nothing but causing sleepless nights.

I also share AleX's concern for ripping females at night but this approach might work. Has anyone ever tried it?

1/1/2006 12:59:58 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

gr8, why would a female...gently opened the evening before it would have naturally opened,..."abort right then"...just a nu-B wanting to learn. All opinions appreciated. Peace, Wayne

1/1/2006 1:26:46 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

If some folks are pollinating at 3 a.m. ...before they go to work...I would dare guess that they are gently peeling open the females that would have naturally opened in the dawns early light...what difference would it make if I moved that up by 3 hours and pollinated at midnight...or 5 hours and pollinated at 10 pm...or 7 hours...when it would still be light out and I could see what I was doing???? What point in this time frame does the female become viable to be pollinated? Once again, just tryin to learn...Peace, Wayne

1/1/2006 1:32:28 AM

Williamsport, Pa.

i my self have peeled open females to po;inate with goog resuts

1/1/2006 7:06:33 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Steve, Eddleman's early evening pollination theory makes a lot of sense to me. Especially when temperatures are expected to rise into the 90* range the next day. I too had several heat induced aborts last year. It could be a bit tricky trying to open up the flower in the evening. I have found that petals tear very easily at 4am so you would have to exercise caution. Nothing, I'm sure a clean, fresh & sharp razor blade can't handle by slitting the flower open. It would be nice to have another pollination option on my work days. I will try it on a couple if the wrong weather conditions are present.

1/1/2006 8:45:08 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Wayne, IMHO I don't believe moving up the deed makes a lot of difference. We know that male pollen can be stored for several days, weeks and or months under the right storage conditions. Even if the female is not ready to accept grains until 2am the pollen grains would have been deposited keeping Mr. Right waiting for the most opportune temperature and time. Any leg up on the weather is worth the effort to at least try. God only knows how often Mother Nature wins in my patches. I will still keep my miners light handy just in case the early bird still needs a wake up call.

1/1/2006 9:00:40 AM

Gilbertsville PA

I am no expert , but I have forced pollinated females at 5am because of my work , and never had any abort, the only problem I seem to have is less seeds, compared to ones that has been pollenated later in the morning when I dont have to work.

1/1/2006 10:04:36 AM

Norton, MA

I've seen in the past that if a flower is damaged it will not open when expected and mush in the next few days, not always. If you were very very careful and the flower was soft enough you could (early morning), but the night before, the flower is too hard and will break more easily. Also, we all cut dozens of tiny ones off secondaries and I always cut mine open, the males and females are never fuzzy or orange (pollen covered) until the day of opening. AleX Noel.

1/1/2006 11:09:42 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Alex, you have to use pre-harvested male pollen for this to work.

1/1/2006 11:41:07 AM

Chico, Ca

My questions are as follows.

1) Would cooling the flowers a day or too before they are ready as well as after pollination help with aborts due to heat stress? Could the 90's and 100's before bloom set up the failure due to shock from the rapid temp drop of throwing ice and a hut over it?

2) Has anyone tried this before?

1/1/2006 5:39:48 PM

San Diego

I think the hot area growers have more experience in this area just because it's a hot pollination day every year for us. Frankly, I have never had a pollination problem ever, even in 100 degree heat as long as I cool the female with shade cloth, small cooler with frozen bottle in it, and if it's really hot ice on the outside of the cooler around the base of it. Does it take time and prepe, yup, so it could be a problem if you have work and no one can do this for you. I'd rather take my chances like this than pollinate late and wonder if it took. Jim

1/1/2006 7:40:26 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I have now contacted all of the growers who Eddleman worked with or obtained seeds from in the late '90's. None of them live or grow in "hot" areas. It is worth mentioning that Dr Eddleman was really only concerned with the genetic differences between white & tan seeds. As he tried to grow his own genetics experiment, he ran into heat related aborts.

His work in microbiology goes on but he doesn't appear to be involved with AGs any more. The email address I had for him was dead.

Pre-cooling flowers in advance of pollination is an intriquing idea.

1/1/2006 8:32:30 PM

Long Island,New York

Not for nothing, he really never was on-track with what we do. He started some stuff...got sick and dropped out for a bit..don't think he ever got back to the AG's.

1/2/2006 9:01:50 AM

Buffalo, MN (Billsbigpumpkins@hotmail.com)

Very interesting thread. Great exchange of ideas. I have a question. Has anyone taken a look at the actual temp at pollination and day time temp of all their pumpkins to see if the higher temps was diffently the cause of low seed count?

If so I really like Fisssh's idea of the simple method of just shading the female for the day.

1/2/2006 10:13:37 PM

Canada

Yup, I found the same thing in 2005, all pollinations I did first thing in the mourning as the flower opened almost all failed to take, ones which I covered with a baggie and left till later in the day to pollinate took

Dave

1/5/2006 12:14:55 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Hmmmmm....So maybe the ambient air temperature at the *time* of pollination is less important than the temperature *flux* during the several hours following pollination.

1/5/2006 1:43:39 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I have to admit that I've never worried about this heat thing
because the days are 90s and the nights are 50s where I live.
But here's a theory (from someone clueless, since I don't
really concern myself with it, and most of my 6:00am
pollinations "take" just fine...)

One year (2004) I did have trouble with aborts. Also, that
spring I happened to put down LOTS of fresh manure. The plants
grew like weeds, but didn't want to set fruit. 75% of my
opportunities turned into aborts... Later I find out from
experts that too much nitrate nitrogen can cause these
problems.

Now here's the theory: Does nitrogen uptake by the plant
spike when the weather is hot? If so, could that be causing
your aborts? If so, cut back on the nitro in late June...

Well, just a thought...

1/6/2006 1:00:08 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Oh, about the temperature flux question... like I said, I deal
with 50's in the morning to 80's in the day, or low 60's in
the morning to 90's in the day... and I really have most all
fruits "set", except for that one year when I had way to much
nitrate.

When the sun goes down here it get cold FAST! And when the sun
comes up, it warms up very quickly.

1/6/2006 1:03:49 AM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

I go out to the patch , they are very seldom open early in the morning. In fact, the earliest I have seen them open was about 11 am. My pollinating has been done in the afternoon. One time I peeled back the petals before they even opened about 9 am. I have only ever had one abort on me.

1/6/2006 8:57:56 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Cliff,

There is a very direct corelation between Nitrogen & fruit-set. Too much N does cause aborts. Knowing this, warm area growers should be careful to avoid fresh manures, heavy spring organic material additions & synthetic or other supplemental N fertilizers prior to pollination.

1/6/2006 12:49:18 PM