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Mn

i had a few questions on cloning and selfing. if you self a seed over a couple generations will it produce a squash? Here is a list of crosses. I want to know whether these will produce squash our pumpkins over many generations. In these crosses C1 is the clone sustained over many years
( C1 = 1068 wallace clone)

C1 X 846 Calia

C1 X (C1 X 846 Calia)

C1 X [C1 X (C1 X 846 Calia)]

C1 X {C1 X [C1 X (C1 X 846 Calia)]}

1/3/2006 8:45:01 PM

Mn

continued....

846 Calia X C1

846 Calia X (846 Calia X C1)

846 Calia X [846 Calia X (846 Calia X C1)]

846 Calia X {846 Calia X [846 Calia X (846 Calia X C1)]}

1/3/2006 8:48:08 PM

Mn

/C1 X {C1 X [C1 X (C1 X 846 Calia)]}/ X 846 Calia

{C1 X [C1 X (C1 X 846 Calia)]}X 846 Calia

[C1 X (C1 X 846 Calia)] X 846 Calia

(C1 X 846 Calia) X 846 Calia

1/3/2006 8:55:58 PM

Mn

Continued....
/846 Calia X {846 Calia X [846 Calia X (846 Calia X C1)]}/ X C1

{846 Calia X [846 Calia X (846 Calia X C1)]}X C1

[846 Calia X (846 Calia X C1)] X C1

(846 Calia X C1) X C1

My Question iS WICH crosses will produce squash And which will produce pumpkins. PRETEND THE 846 IS ALSO A CLONE!!!!
If you want to help me out more pretend that the 846 is not a clone in all the crosses.

1/3/2006 9:02:59 PM

Mn

This may be confusing to some of you. I just want to understand wether our not selfing will create squash and if it does whatkind of pumpkin would result from the crosses above.

1/3/2006 9:05:15 PM

Western NY

odds are, none will produce squash. your best bet would be to grow a few of the 1068 offspring, self them all, grow the greenest one, and continue for years until you get solid green.

1/3/2006 9:31:56 PM

Syracuse, NY

all great equations, but i think it's Calai,
and, you had me at "C1", lol...
i must be "some of you", lol.
i THINK there needs to be a male AND female parent that each have the recessive green gene in order to
squeeze-out a squash the following year...
perhaps in the case of a SQUUMPKIN,
the dominant and the recessive genes are duking it out for control.
disclaimer: i am no expert on this one, lol! heyUneverNO

1/4/2006 2:06:46 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Hmmm, this is how I see it…
Assuming you know that the C1 and the Calai are both heterozygous, statistically you are at 3:1 pumpkin: squash ratio for the F1 offspring of this cross. Let’s say you are a hard worker and decide to take four seeds from the F1 and plant them, pollinating with the original C1 pollen. When the green fruit appears, you know it’s mother plant was homozygous recessive. Planting this seed statistically would now result in a 1:1 ratio of pumpkins to squash in the F2 generation.

Now, that’s where you need to stop going back to the C1, if your goal is to produce true green. Going back to the heterozygous C1 would never give you better than a 50/50 shot at a squash even if you have the true green genes. Your best bet would be to start selfing this F2 generation IMO. It would still have a huge chunk of 1068 in it’s lineage. -Jim

1/4/2006 4:45:10 PM

Norton, MA

If you grew all the 846's ever, there might be one squash, not likely. All the 1068's, maybe a squash, more "color ruled" squashes though, not true squashes (although that's the old color rule now). If you grew all those seeds, and all their seeds, and forever on you would tap into some hidden green and eventually breed that together and get a fully 846/1068 pure squasher. AleX Noel.

1/4/2006 5:41:35 PM

Long Island,New York

no

1/4/2006 6:24:10 PM

Cincinnati,OH

After selfing a seed many times eventually a recessive trait will appear (lets say green)
Getting squash from the 846 would literally be like winning a lottery.
I dont know much about squash but there must be a better lineage to work with if your trying to develope a new squash seed.

1/4/2006 8:39:52 PM

Ohio

G, dont beat around the bush with your answer, just tell em straight out, you gotta quit being so conservative with your answers,people will understand..........LOL

1/5/2006 4:52:25 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

well I was assuming there is some strong reason to believe a squash was going to come out of this cross in the first place.

I agree, Brooks. "no" doesn't explain a whole lot.

1/5/2006 9:12:59 AM

Cincinnati,OH

Heres a good thread on squashing.
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=9976

1/5/2006 4:22:53 PM

Long Island,New York

Ok...til I get AGGC back I need to go by memory so here goes....846 is 801x876Lloyd. There's no know real squash ever grown from either of them...and the 846 has been grown to near extinction...no shortage of data on that one. The 801Stelts has been grown to near extinction and has tons of data also...no known green squash there either. The 801 is 825Shymanski x 562Rose I think with the 562 being likely 567.5 x self? 825.5 is a 567 progeny. No known squash ever grown from the 567.5 mombert either. So why would one think there is a squash gene carried in the 846Calai? Surely with all thats been grown we would have seen it. No squash from any 846 x selfs either. Isnt the 1074 the same cross as the
846?...no squash there. 869.5Calai is 846x801?...almost selfed no?....known for great color and not a green color at that. Nope...no squash gene there. Heck, we don't even know the mechanics of color anyway...even though many think they do...he-he. So...in short MY answer is NO.

1/5/2006 5:00:03 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

Yes

1/5/2006 11:33:22 PM

Mn

Thanks for the info guys. So the way i'm seeing it, somewhere in the past genetic there would have to be squash to produce squash. I just have pondering wether you could get a squash that has a tendency to produce PUMPKINS when it is crossed with a pumpkin our vice versa. here is a better way of putting it:
15% heavy 700lb bright orange pumpkin. Lineage (700lb squash 20% Heavy X 700lb [0% heavy bright orange pumpkin])
What i'm trying to get at is; can you develope a squash that when crossed with a pumpkin produces a pure pumpkin offspring with the HEAVY genetics from the squash. In my origonal post i wanted to find out what clonning and selfing would do when you cross two pumpkins one with squash and one with NO squash in ther background. But I'm not a 100% sure if thats what i really ment since it has been a long time since i last checked this post. And now i have switched my thoughts again. Hopefully i make sence.LoL

1/6/2006 7:31:28 PM

Cincinnati,OH

Squash don't always go heavy so it's best to pick a lineage.
You could try the 647 Kilbert 02 (673 Kilbert 01 x *609 Stelts 00) seedoutlet might still have some
673 Kilbert is (846 Calai 99 x 940 Mombert 00)lots of orange genes and goes a bit light.
* 609 Kilbert 00 (935 Lloyd 97 x 991 Hunt)lots of heavy 935 Lloyd genes.
Or if you don't want to know the color of your fruit try the 911 Stelts (*609 Stelts 00 x *990 Hebb 00)

1/6/2006 9:18:35 PM

Long Island,New York

ooooohhh, nothing with 616 genes (990) is you need heavy either.....

1/7/2006 8:43:25 AM