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Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

This may not really be a genetics question, but I just had a disturbing/brilliant (possibly insane/stupid) thought.

If I recall what I know about cancer from grade 7 science class, it involves uncontrolled cell division which can manifest itself as tumors. So, what if we could find a way to give our pumpkins some sort of disease that would cause them to grow even more unnaturally than they already do? Maybe that's one way to break away from the plateau that we seem headed towards.

3/9/2006 11:46:50 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Interesting crammed. Kind of a disturbing thought though. If the cancer would only affect the fruit(not the rest of the plant) and wouldn't increase the incedence onf damaged fruits, it may work out.

3/10/2006 11:59:30 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Tell me again Why? If you could manage to do this...how would you be able to control it. So it would not mutate to other Cucurbita. Not a good idea at all.

3/10/2006 12:36:37 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I'm not really talking about creating a disease. I don't think that making our pumpkins smoke or use cellphones 24 hours a day would work. I wonder if there is anything natural (albeit abnormal) already out there. And, I don't mean to make light of cancer, I just didn't know a better way to describe what I was thinking.

As far as controlling the abnormal growth, well, I guess we couldn't control it very well. But, don't we (well, not really me with my 204.5 pb) already have problems with damage? We are already walking the thin line between insanely fast growth and splitting. So, I'm just talking about pushing the envelope a bit more.

3/10/2006 1:06:46 PM

Decatur, IL

Cancer cells don't look or behave like normal cells. A healthy growing pumpkin has cells dividing at a high rate already. All you'd accomplish by giving a pumpkin cancer would be to have a pumpkin with a tumor that probably would take away from the growth of the pumpkin itself, since cancers destroy normal cells.

3/10/2006 2:27:38 PM

Western NY

i don't believe plant cells can get cancer, at least not the way we know of it in people. maybe someone who knows more about cells can correct me, though.

3/10/2006 2:55:10 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I think maybe what you're angling to is something like cochlinine? I never thought it was a good idea...

3/10/2006 5:27:34 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Yikes!

3/10/2006 6:45:51 PM

Syracuse, NY

is that 'colchicine', some growth regulator...

whatever the fruit is made of, which i think is basically potassium, we need to hit it with high doses of that,
BUT!!!!! that also throws-off other elements in the soil, and can lead to massive splitting at the last minute.

Boily said something about HIS fruit being all
"calcified inside, and that may have contributed to the
higher OTC weight" (VERY loosely quoted)---check it out...
all them dangly-lookin' stringamajigs in the fruit,
they gotta weigh quite a bit, in quantity! eric

3/10/2006 7:59:21 PM

Greencastle, PA

my pumpkins have all had those node-type growths that Ben seemed to be describing. Though they were all small, they were all heavy. I loaded the soil with gypsum and kelp meal where they were grown. Unbridled growth does sound nice at first, but my assumption is that you'd end up with a lot of weird shapes that may be more prone to splitting. The best solution for increasing weight is simply selecting the best traits. Therefore, we should all grow my seeds in 2007.
Tom

3/10/2006 8:25:08 PM

New Hampshire

Don't tell me we are not a bunch of mad scientist

3/10/2006 8:53:15 PM

Rhode Island

We have hit a new all time low with this topic.
Whatever happened to just getting a good seed, developing your soil correstly, and going out there and doing the work it takes to grow a nice large pumpkin ?
pumpkin cancer?
No wonder the big boys shun this message board. no need to reinvent the pumpkin. Just learn how to get better every year doing it the tried and true way.
pap

3/10/2006 9:03:26 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Dick they did not get this big by doing the same old thing all the time..Someone did something different and others followed. Several years ago when I was told by Drammatic Corp to use Molasses to increase my Potassium Levels I thought they were goofy now a lot of growers use molasses. At one time didn't growers believe white seeds were superior to tan.

3/10/2006 9:52:07 PM

Follansbee, Wv

I have to agree with Dick on this one. In fact it is the "same old thing" that gets the biggest fruit. Being able to do that same old thing better is the trick. We all do soil prep, but some do it better. We all prune, but sme do it better. We all weed (hopefully) but some do it better. Dick said it best:

"going out there and doing the work it takes to grow a nice large pumpkin"

That's the trick isn't it?

3/10/2006 11:19:00 PM

Puyallup, WA

Hey...careful there...Jack LaRue still believes that white seeds are superior to tan ones!

3/11/2006 12:20:13 AM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

Re: "going out there and doing the work it takes to grow a nice large pumpkin"

Of course you still have to go out and do the work no matter what. But, what I'm talking about is the difference between Barry Bonds the rookie and the juiced up version that we have now. To be that good, you still have to start with winning genetics, work hard, and be a little bit lucky. But, everybody's doing that. So, why not try something different? (but within the rules)

Maybe creating a diseased mutant pumpkin is not the best way to go. But, there has to be something new at some point to keep the upward trend going. I'm still working on the basics. I just wanted to float a new idea and see if anybody else had some too.

3/11/2006 2:39:37 AM

Rhode Island

by all means im as much an adventurer as the next person.

i can give you ideas for growing larger pumpkins if you want to gamble.and you dont need to inject them with a majic potion.

how about growing one in a big half moon pit. so it will be completely round on the bottom? ( theres a reason why pumpkins of size are fairly thin on the bottom ) the pressure from development over the months pushes the bulk and thickness to the outside and so the bottoms are always thinner.
or on a large piece of mill fabric suspended by a large cargo net suspended from a tri-pod in the air to form a perfect circle ( no pressues on any area of the pumpkin that way ? ) no splits?

3/11/2006 7:56:39 AM

Hanover,Ontario,Canada

You guys should talk with Bill Bobier who is already experimenting with this suspended process of growing. He's way ahead of you.

3/11/2006 8:19:07 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

OK.....I'll admit it...I like experimenting like the mad scientist. I've used hypodermic needles & IV outfits on pumpkins. We've used giberellins, auxins, birth control pills, even 2,4-d.

Colchicine (KOL-chi-seen) is used on the emerging seedling in an attempt to created that one-in-a-miilion "Tetraploid" giant. See Don's 3rd book for instructions.

Plants don't get cancer....can't. I have seen the stuff that Ben found too. Unfortunately I found it in one of my "bad science" experiments. That fruit probably was heavy OTC but we'll never know. It was taping 170 lbs & was carved for the front porch.

I'm going to side with Dick on this one. Experimenting is fun. But do it on the "back-9" because there is (so far) nothing to be gained (much) by using hormones or other human medications on pumpkins (mostly). There is only one (sort of) exception but we can't talk about that right now.

3/11/2006 8:36:13 AM

Butler, Ohio

Well said Steve! There's always going to be a new gadget or gizmo or some wild new idea for growing these things, but I am starting to find that more often than not...less is more with growing these giants. Just my 2 cents worth.
Mike

3/11/2006 9:46:05 AM

Ohio

Steve, How the birth control pills work? Did you see anything diffrent in growth? I remember you and I talking about that in a post a few years ago. A inmate I talked to at work would use birth control pills on his wacky weed and swore that it grows bigger plants(Buds). But I always take into consideration that it was a inmate telling this story and on most occasions stretch the truth 24/7.

Brooks

3/11/2006 8:28:58 PM