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Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

I'm looking for insights and ideas to help make my crosses.
What are some of the factors growers use to determine what male pollinator to use? Also if you have a plant that had a double or flat vine, would it be advisable to skip that plant as a pollinator? How about a plant that started out double and grew out of that condition? I grow for color 1st and size 2nd. Every plant I have has great color potentual, but I have a couple plants that started out double and one that has a ribbon vine. any insights and advise are welcome. THANKS: STEVE

6/27/2006 8:23:34 AM

Steve I've made note in chat that many experienced growers avoid using plants they have problems with as pollinators,,even if they are "proven" plants. I assume their way of reducing undesirable traits in the gene pool.

I do know that one of the traits that is looked for is "% heavy to the charts" which those with access to AGGC can check (I don't), hoping it carrys through to the next generation.

This is confusing to me as well,,I'l be watching this post.

6/27/2006 11:41:18 AM

Ca

Other than a few fruits, I have been going heat tolerance first, size and then color. I try though to cross similiar colors whenever I can. Using male flowers from that have problems never really crossed my mind. But I pretty much did that anyway because most of my male flower have been from some of my best growing plants.

6/27/2006 12:31:36 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Steve with a lineup like yours just avoid the mutants you can't go wrong

6/27/2006 1:07:14 PM

Syracuse, NY

i guess that since every seed and every pollen grain and
every female flower and so on all have a little variation
to them, we cannot determine that if we do or do not pollinate a particular female with a particular male from a plant that has some growth problems we are or are not going to pass along that trait to the next generation because there is a chance that it might be cancelled-out in the crossing process. i hope i worded that correctly because
i almost fell asleep pondering it, and i am at work, lol!
however, perhaps it IS advisable to stick with crosses that do not involve problem plants, but we all need to be adventurous, right? perhaps make a dream cross, but only on a fruit that is going to be a shock absorber----i do that all the time, but have never shyed-away from making the
cross i have been dreaming of on a main vine fruit.
each to his or her own, and good luck no matter what---eric

6/27/2006 1:50:00 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Great questions Steve!
I've wondered if flat/double-vined plants, used in a cross, will result in a higher percentage of these traits in the progeny. Is it more likely to be passed on if the female, or male, had the trait?
I have one plant that had a doublevine main(I trained a normal secondary as the new main). I was going to self it, but now I think I'll cross it with pollen from a normal-vined plant.
I think we coould get better insight here, if the AGGC had growers state if their plants(male or female in the cross) had mutant vine traits(or at least on the mainvine).

6/28/2006 12:07:32 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan (michiganpumpkins@sbcglobal.net)

Steve:
The flatvine 'gene' or 'mutation', or whatever you want to call it, is a form of very aggressive growth, albeit growth that gets expressed in a way we don't want.I'm no geneticist, but I'd say those plants have some trigger, probably genetic, that focuses the plant's energy on abnormal vine growth instead of normal vine, leaf & fruit production. Whether flatvines breed flatvines is debatable, but I'd fall in the 'rather be safe than sorry' camp...I wouldn't use your flatties as pollinators, especially since you have so many other good plants going to choose from...
Also, good luck with the knee surgery...are you sure you didn't injure it hauling manure?!?
Frank

6/28/2006 7:54:41 AM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

Frank: NO I didn't hurt my knee hauling manure. lol. I have been limping around for a year now. Here is the situation with the double vine and ribbon vine plants. The 1370 started out double and corrected itself with no help. the 869 Calai was double and I split it, removed one side and is growing normal now. the 412 eddy z plant was double and corrected itself. The 1230 Daletas is a total ribbon vine and doesn't appear that it will grow out of it. I wanted to use it for pollin, but i think i will cut the plant out and not use it. I guess my biggest question would be the 869 because I had to correct it instead of it growing out of the double vine condition. On a good note, the 810 dill is a super plant.I think I will use it for a pollinator a lot.

6/28/2006 8:45:04 AM