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Eddyz@efirehose.net

How close to a hybred is the 1068 Wallace.
Obsevations
1)very uniform in shape and very close in color, with all fruit
2)very agreesive vining tendancies
3)very few if any, seeds in the fruit, with a few exceptions.(most hybreds have few if any seeds)
4)growth of fruit passed the 60 day old mark

How close to a hybred 723 Bobier
Observations
1)Uniform shape and color, color ranges are more defined
2)Very normal vine tendancies
3)seed numbers are decent except in a few larger fruits, where they are low to none
4)growth of fruit passed the 60 day mark

As great as the 2 fruit are, would the 1068 be one step closer to be the holy grail, and possibly be the utimate seed. Can it be improved, and if so, what can you cross it with?
My theory is, it can go one more step, and I'm not sure if this can be achieved by crossing the 1068 with the 723 Bobier, and this could very well be the 1068X 1354 already done in the world record, or does it need to be sibbed or selfed, to achieve this next step. Sure would like some input.
Eddy

1/2/2007 2:49:49 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Interesting Eddy.
Jerry Rose crossed the 1068 with the 723, and reverse, this year.
1160 Rose(1068 X 723)
1131 Rose(723 X 1068)

I'd also like to hear thoughts on the questions you brought up.

1/2/2007 3:08:42 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

The 898 & the 845 are about as disimilar as 2 seeds get nowadays. So some synergy probably should have been expected.

Go back in the hierarchy trees. By the late '80's these 2 seeds haven't crossed paths. Indeed their is clean routes to Gancarz & Dill on both sides but then they stay away from each other for MANY generations.

It's going to take some time but there might be another THIRD seed that has managed to avoid the 935.

Where to find another seed that is as different & unique as the 914 Wentzell though?

1/2/2007 3:45:46 PM

Cincinnati,OH

I will be trying a couple sibed 1068 seeds this year.

1/2/2007 4:32:25 PM

No Place Special

As far as i can see, the 869 has no 935 in it.

1/2/2007 5:15:50 PM

Commack, NY

im not seeing the uniformity personally. ive seen a whole bunch on aggc, mine included with dill rings, and other areas of major concern.

vine agressiveness? not anymore than any other seed. matter of fact it grew slower than my 723 did.

the last two points, i did experience, so i will agree. I'd be interested in hearing what others experienced with it. i crossed my 723 and 1068 with each other, but considering that the 723 blew out the blossom and the 1068 had a concave blossom and i can only grow two plants, im not sure that id grow it.

1/2/2007 9:45:51 PM

Rhode Island

we have yet to plan our 1068 crosses for 2007 but three crosses we are pretty high on making is another sibbed 1068 because the 1450 had such a low seed count (less than 100 )

id like to take a 1,502 and cross the 1068 back into it.

the third cross would be to grow a pollinator plant from any good old school seed stock with the 935 male pollinator present or, quite possibly grow and cross the 898 back into the 1068,or visa versa.

any other suggestions ( besides sending the seeds to you for planting lol )

pap

1/2/2007 11:09:21 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Dick,
You could cross the 1068 into the 1450. It would still be all 1068, but not a true sibb. Plus you'd be throwing the 1068 into a sibb of the two heaviest 1068's to date. Or you could sibb cross the 1450. Just some suggestions.

1/3/2007 12:03:17 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan (michiganpumpkins@sbcglobal.net)

Eddy:
The Holy Grail of seeds would have to exhibit consistent superior results for overall weight, % heavy, shape & COLOR! 1068 offspring, for all their benefits, are lacking in color. For that reason I think the 1068 x 1370 or reverse crosses, or, more specifically the ONE that rises to the top among the ones made in 2006, will be the future of AG growing.
But, if someone were to really do it right, we'd all enter into a cooperative breeding program and grow/self 1068 for a few generations for size & % heavy. Meanwhile, another group would grow/self 1370 for a few generations, selecting on shape & color. Then cross for the theorical hybrid vigor...

1/3/2007 7:31:50 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan (michiganpumpkins@sbcglobal.net)

I dunno Mike. I've always considered 876.5 to be nearly interchangeable with 935. Same genes swimming in that Lloyd gene pool of that era.

1/3/2007 12:16:19 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

>> if someone were to really do it right, we'd all enter into a cooperative breeding program and grow/self 1068 for a few generations for size & % heavy. Meanwhile, another group would grow/self 1370 for a few generations, selecting on shape & color

I volunteer to self either of these seeds, if I only had one of them.

1/3/2007 2:31:35 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I would also self the 1450 <big grin> giving it two generations, then we just need someone to do a selfed 1370 this year, selfing it again. Next year, we make crosses. Fun to think about, anyway...

1/3/2007 2:39:50 PM

Greencastle, PA

The F2 generation from the 1370 may not have the color consistancy of the 1370 because of the pollinator (712 Kuhn). Several generations of mass planting and self-pollination may be needed to homogenize the desired characteristics of the 1370.

1/3/2007 7:21:25 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

I think an inbred line of 1068 crossed with an inbred line of 801.5 Stelts could be a nice combination. To quote Pumpkinpal2(Eric)..." Big and ugly, crossed with orange and lovely"...I hope I got it right Eric. No offence to the Wallace's, in using the "big and ugly" terminology for the 1068.

1/3/2007 10:19:38 PM

Goffstown,nh

Pap, I think your option of planting the 898 again and introducing it back into the 1068 is your best idea. Wouldn't we all agree the 898 is at the core of the heavy weight gains and over the chart weights? It's possible that not every 898 seed carries that trait but i believe more do than don't. I think the 898 got the 1068 where it is today, and you should stregnthen it with more. Just my thoughts...

1/4/2007 9:46:41 PM

Rhode Island

Jimmy B

we agree . now we just gotta pry the 898 away from alan reynolds. not a easy task as alan guards his seed chest like a kids baseball card collection. ( back in the day when kids sat down long enough to collect anything ) lol

Dick

1/4/2007 11:23:58 PM

President - GPC

Yo,

The Wiz got lucky to get a 1068 X 1068 sib (1105 Glasier) from Pete, Im wanting to cross it for future seed genetics...along with the line of this thread I was thinking my ultimate genetics line would be to cross it with Eddys 898 X 1068.....thats my plan as this time. I could also obtain some male pollen from Joe Scherber as he has a 1068 he is going to plant but I really like adding Eddys to the mix.....Thoughts?
Comments?

1/5/2007 10:39:13 AM

President - GPC

Then again a 500 Wallace would be a sweet genetic addition too to that 1068 X 1068.......Hmmmmm

1/5/2007 10:41:08 AM

Vermont

Cliff I have a 2nd year self of the 1370.487 Horton est 05(1370 x self).763 Landers 06 (487 x self)If you want to carry it on let me know.
Scoops

1/5/2007 3:37:06 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Another item worth considering when comparing these two seeds is the actual number of seeds harvested from each fruit.

I think Bill once said the 723 yielded around 600 seeds.

Ron's 1068 had 286 seeds if my memory serves.

So realistically the 723 has had (about) twice as many opportunities to perform.

1/6/2007 11:34:32 AM

Lymington

We have been hybridising lilies at our nursery for a few years now and have found that to get the best characteristics from two diferent lilies into one, we have to make the same cross many times. Its not unusual to have 3000 seedlings off a particular cross, and it is almost guaranted that know two will look the same. What dosent work the first time may well work the 10th or 100th time. Good ingredients do seem to be the key. I heard that the 723 yielded alot of seeds which is a great reason in itself to hybridise with it. Were planning on crossing it with the 1068 and 1502 along with two of Joes next year.

1/18/2007 3:28:21 PM