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Colorado

Is there a reason that the 1151.4 Bobier '05 (723 x sib) and the 1100 Bobier '03 (845 x sib) don't have any progeny listed on the AGGC?

Given the interest in the 1450 Wallace (1068 x sib), I would think that the other two pumpkins would have seen a lot of interest too. Is there a reason why they haven't been heavily planted?

1/4/2007 11:03:08 PM

Ohio

Pete, I was set on trying both seeds last year but changed plans at the last second. I agree with you, and cant believe that ether wasnt planted very much(if at all) last year . I do think it will be grown though, and these seeds will be good ones to hold on to.

Pete I think the 1450 Wallace is going to be the next 1068 Wallace in my opinion, to bad there wasnt very many seeds from it.

Brooks

1/5/2007 7:01:32 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

It's all Glenn's fault.

Growers don't get excited by sibbed seeds. No sibbed or selfed seed has ever grown the World record. The feeble attempts to grow out sibbed seeds to see how the genes lined up have delivered very little enouraging news for anyone other than Glenn. LOL

Ninety percent of the growers don't care to dedicate space to a genetics purification project. Sibbing a sibbed seed means growing not one but TWO relative unkowns. To get a true representation of the genes that were captured in the original grow means planting about 10 of the seeds or repeating the process 10 times.

If the 1450 does get planted it will only be bacause of the 1502 & the fact they were both heavy OTT.

Of the 2 crosses Pete brings up, only the 845xsib has ever been reported grown to the AGGC & it was actually grown twice.

821 Garrell '02 (845 Bobier x sib)

While the 821 had pretty good orange color (for an 845 progeny) it's progeny were both Squash.

632 Swarts '03* has no reported progeny but...
229 Hathorn '03* had done well & grown several large all green squash.

I guess if folks don't like when an orange fruit tosses a green progeny then one might suggest that the 821 may have hurt the 1100 & 1151.4 Bobier's chances of being grown. This is silly really. Once the last 723's are gone the 1151 should be grown & sibbed again to see what happened.

1/5/2007 7:51:10 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Then again....many genetics fruit aren't grown in the "primary" patch. Hence they don't break 500 lbs or perhaps never go to the scales at all. So maybe they just don't reported to AGGC which would be a shame since AGGC is supposed to be a genetics project & not a scoreboard.

For all we know maybe some reclusive grower is deligently working out of the lime-light on a secret genetics project somewhere.

1/5/2007 7:54:23 AM

Netherlands

There are three growers listed that grew the 1100 as a pollinator and two growers that used the 1151 as a pollinator on three different pumpkins. Not sure why these growers never recorded a fruit off of them. Were they all damaged?
The best known 1100 cross is the 1187 Slusarek (1082 MacKinnon x 1100) that produced the 1310 Slusarek and a 905.

1/5/2007 7:58:50 AM

Ohio

That is weird how a selfed or sibbed seed hasnt had any real monsters grown yet that stick out in my mind. Alot of people including my self always say sibb or self a great seed, but now Im wondering myself, why is that?

I havnt checked yet, but if you look back in any of the great proven seed producers family trees, how many of them have a selfed pollinated seed before them in there family?

1/5/2007 8:58:14 AM

President - GPC

Yo,
Pete, Ill be planting a sib this year, and we are going to see if it just might take a Colorado State record, received my bubble from Pete Glasier, Ill be growing his 1105 this year, 1068 Wallace X 1068 Wallace. Not many seeds from his 1105 but I was lucky enough to land one and I promised to feature it......Probably as close as Ill be ever to get some of that great pure, Wallace 1068 genes.....Should be a lot of them in that seed just aching to get out in this Colorado dirt. Time will tell......

1/5/2007 10:01:18 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I think this is another area where we get a distorted view, because of our human nature, we gravitate toward names. Well, let me explain...

We like seeds from top growers. We like seeds that have popularity because they did something for someone else. Somehow the DISTRIBUTION of seeds hit critical mass (sorry to use that term again!) and off it went. Anyway, back to my point, most top growers don't do selfs or sibs (most). The top growers who also produce highly sought after seeds always have several top seed choices to pick from, and naturally the desire is to make those crosses.

But then if all we do is cross, cross, cross, then it's like a big bowl of cake batter that we stir up a few more times... most of what we have is a big pile of 846, 723, 845, etc... (not necessarily a bad thing).

Taking a look at the really historical "sea change" sorts of genetic events in this hobby: 567.7 Mombert and 935 Lloyd, each of those either came from inbreeding or had significant inbreeding in it's immediate history.

The other genetic "event" seems to be the 898 Knauss. I'm not sure how this came to be.

What other examples can we learn from?

1/5/2007 12:16:17 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

the above should say "567.5 Mombert", obviously...

1/5/2007 12:19:11 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Back to crosses, has anyone done 1068 Wallace X 1101 Northrup?

This is one cross I'd like to try......

1/5/2007 12:23:45 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

I sent a seed away to a someone, in a trade, that was an 1100 Bobier X self, I believe. It was over 1100 lbs. if I recall correctly. I got it in a club seed distribution.

1/5/2007 12:33:43 PM

Ba2 2el England

520rondeau is1101x1068

1/5/2007 12:34:18 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

beanman,

Thanks for the tip. I wonder if that grower did the reverse cross??

The old standby way of thinking is that most of the color comes from the male of the cross. Don't know if this is true or not. There is a whole doctorate thesis wrapped up in figuring out that one.... ;-)

1/5/2007 12:55:57 PM

President - GPC

Cliff, Yes but I also think that we tend to want to do something new, something different? I know I really wanted to grow and see that Reiss seed, but now Im not as excited to grow it again this year as I am to grow a different genetic seed to watch it grow. But in creating a hybrid seed would it not make sense to refine those already great genetics with more of the same, as we taken something proven #1 and keep it pure and plentiful? Thats why I think the 1068 sib crossed again with Ice-mans 898 X 1068 may produce those refined genetics.......the best of the best again.....what would be a key is see if Ron or Pappy have room in their patch so that seed gets great techniques and good dirt too to prove me right.....Guess I need to trust Colorado weather but I know better than that.....

1/5/2007 1:05:51 PM

Western NY

cliff, I think the 947 Legoretta is 1068 x 1101. you're welcome to mine if you want it.

1/5/2007 2:18:27 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Ah... Whoa... what was I thinking... I grew the 947 Legoretta last year! Unfortunately that plant just didn't want to grow, but a lot of it might have been due to a mishap with manure that was way too fresh. Too much nitrate can really mess up a patch. This particular plant and one other were doomed before they started, due to their location.

So I guess I was thinking this exact same thing, this time last year...

Anyway, the color was a yellowish-orange, but not really the kind of orange to get overly excited about.

1/5/2007 3:21:46 PM

Long Island,New York

Well...over the past couple months Ive just about all of the Steve bashing and correcting I can take.
Just about.......still room for a wee bit more though...hee-hee.
The 653WR Stellpflug squash was selfed...and grew the 743WR Stellpflug squash which was selfed and grew the 821 WR Stellpflug squash....a squash bigger than any pumpkin up to that date.(yes...a selfed 3 generations actually held the WR for largest fruit of any color ever grown).
The 895 Hester...a sibbed fruit has grown a 1000lber as have the 735Pukos and Im sure others. The odds of a grower growing two of the bestest seeds, sibbing them, and having both be successful to the point we hear about it and want to grow it are remote at best. Yes...most genetics wannabees like myself grow the genetics sibs/crosses on "genetics plants" in "genetics patches" or on severed sidevines and they either never get recorded because of the silly 500lb cutoff in AGGC or because the genetics wannabee want to play with it all by his lonesome....all us genetic wannabees think we're working on top secret super crosses to make the ultimate pumpkin seed so all the big growers will want to be our friend...trust me I know.

1/5/2007 4:14:36 PM

Ri

Hi Cliff, I crossed the 1101 Northrup with the 1068 Wallace but not the reverse. I made crosses to help the club for our upcoming promotion as well as get other genes in the RI lines. The 1068 was crossed with the 1081 Leonzi. You are welcome to these seeds and my others. Email me pgr120q@aol.com Peter

ps Check out the NY auction this weekend all the 06 crosses are listed

1/5/2007 4:16:25 PM

Topsfield, Ma.

G, was the 1533 a sib? :-)

1/5/2007 6:43:52 PM

Nashville, TN

ll us genetic wannabees think we're working on top secret super crosses to make the ultimate pumpkin seed so all the big growers will want to be our friend...trust me I know.


***Not all of us. I'm primarily working with selfed (inbred) varieties, or creating inbred varieties, in order to answer some inheritance questions.

**According to research, the final SIZE/WEIGHT of the fruit is primarily due to environmental factors. Unfortunantly, many genetics buffs are more interested in things like color or shape, and the growing conditions may not be as suitable for growing heavy weights.

I have noticed that the weights in my own research patch are doubling each season. Though the plants are getting more inbred with each generation. This is due to the improvements in the soil, water and growing techniques - the genetics for size has been there for generations, just waiting for conditions to improve.

1/15/2007 12:10:56 PM

President - GPC

I agree with scienceteacher 100% :) and also LI pumpkin too!

1/16/2007 9:19:28 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I truly believe a grower can take time and produce a great seed with a self or sib. Why? Take a look at the 845 & 723 UOW Bobier. Both of these seeds would of never been the top seeds of all times unless, Mr. Lloyd never took two different 687 Lloyd 1995 x Self and planted them in 1996. He got the 909.5 Lloyd and the 875 Lloyd. Then he crossed them in 1997 and got the 935 Lloyd. The 1100 Bobier has grown a 1135 Leonovich that isn't listed on AGGC. Because the grower isn't a member of AGGC. I beleive there are many seeds we don't know about because, there are many pumpkin growers how are not members of AGGC. One of the biggest reason a 845 Bobier x 898 Knauss, or 898 x 845 does so well is because there not related. But so many of the seeds out there today are grosses of sisters and brothers. Yes the 1068 Wallace is the hottest seed now. But, as time goes on a new super hot seed will come along. It very well could be setting in many guys home right now.I truly believe more growers need to do what Quinn Werner and some of the heavy hitters are doing. Plant 4-6 proven seeds and plant 2-3 New unproven seeds. Where would the Wallace's be today if they never took a chance and planted there unproven 1068 Wallace?

1/16/2007 2:45:05 PM