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maine USA

I have always thought that the shape of the fruit is all genetics, but now I am wondering if sometimes something that we do as growers can affect the shape of the fruit as well. Some growers seem to consistently grow flattish fruit, others have tapered blossum ends, while one grower had fruit that were mostly almost acorn shaped. Certainly the growers probably like certain genetics and gravitate towards them causing this consistency. But, are there any other influences? thanks KathyT

1/13/2007 11:42:45 AM

Sioux Falls, SD garyboer@dakotalink.com

can't overlook genetics but
if anything goes wrong to stunt growth
or even slow plant during the spurt
shape can be affected
I think you can lose round uniformness that way
for me, being on vacation during critical week
i think caused the blossom end to not fill out

also, i wonder about mediocre pollination
say if you don't get one side very well?
tho some beauty shapes have no seeds?

1/13/2007 1:38:03 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I'll go so far as to say that shape is more grower influenced than genetically influenced.

A lot of what happens to the blossom end is a result of what the fruit is being grown on, and how the grower is repositioning the fruit every day. Once the fruit reaches a few hundred pounds it's own mass is exerting a force downward. At the same time, it's trying to grow out. If the fruit can't easily slide, then the fruit is forced to grow upward underneath the fruit, while pushing the blossom end downward.

Similar things could be said about care on the stem end.

As for internal cracks or sag lines, and general lumpiness, I think a lot of this is environmental as well. I believe temperature swings have a big effect on the translocation of nutrients into and around the fruit. Around here, it can be 90's in the day and 50's at night, forty degree swings in the 24-hour period. Big on the stem end and short at the blossom end? Seems to me that there is an environment effect going on there. What it exactly is, I don't know, lack of calcium or it moves too slowly...

There is of course some genetic component. I think I see evidences of the 1230 Daletas in fruits that descended from it, for example.

On the other hand, Vince a few years ago tried growing fruits on their blossom end. And what happened? A very pleasing symmetrical shape, more like a field pumpkin. That is most certainly grower influence!

1/13/2007 9:44:02 PM

western PA

"On the other hand, Vince a few years ago tried growing fruits on their blossom end. And what happened? A very pleasing symmetrical shape, more like a field pumpkin. That is most certainly grower influence!"

How on earth did he accomplish that??!!

1/14/2007 10:05:09 AM

Eugene,OR

If you grow multiple fruit on the same plant you can have several different shapes. This tells me it is largely genetic.

1/14/2007 10:57:06 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

I only plant seeds from what appear to be well shaped parents,then I look long at the female flowers and only keep symetrical looking ones that works for me.

Last year I saw two really gnarly ugly fruit from another grower one was a squash one a pumpkin unrelated but exactly the same unusual shape that looked soil related,
High N maybe?

1/14/2007 4:08:09 PM

SF Bay Area, California

Jang - Growing an AG fruit on the blossom end is not easy but I did try it a few years back and got some spectacular three to four hundred pounders. You can see a couple of my better ones at this link.

http://home.pacbell.net/diana_do/saga11.htm

Go to the next page at:

http://home.pacbell.net/diana_do/saga12.htm

for some other shots. Email me for some technical details on how it can be done if you want to try it... vince

1/14/2007 6:39:42 PM

So. Maine

Been growing the giants here for the past 17 years and have always used the same base set up under the pumpkins which is pieces of 3/8 in plywood (seems to keep any field mice from housing directly under the fruit and nesting under the plywood instead) and have grown all types of shapes so I'll side with seed genetics. AL

1/14/2007 10:15:56 PM

Nashville, TN

In the research data that I've located, it seems that genetics will make a 'kin prone to growing a certain way. It is most noticable prior to the 'kin getting past 50-60lbs. Once a 'kin reaches over 200-400lbs - the environmental influence becomes ever stronger.

So in the heaviest of 'kins - gravity overrules genetics in the end shape.

BTW, Vineman - IF it was primarily genetic - they would be all the same shape. If it's primarily environmental - they would be different shapes. Same plant will have the same genes.

1/15/2007 12:17:45 PM

Syracuse, NY

vince, i didn't learn a thing because i couldn't keep my eyes on the PUMPKINS!
there is SOMETHING in the water near your patches.
ha ha ha and i grew a 363.2 in
'00 which was my PB until '01, lol.
the 363.2 was grown intentionally on its
blossom end, and it did not come out anything like the
ones in your website. but, that was then....

1/15/2007 7:13:22 PM

Syracuse, NY

here's an alternative, from Mr. Gustavsson:

http://bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=53577

i tried this, sort-of, in like 2003,
but with not big enough pieces of plywood and....
not a pumpkin that TOOK!
i think this is sooo neat-o. eric g

1/15/2007 7:34:23 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

bad pollinations can result in dragon heads...if ovaries only open up on one side for example toward the stem end the blossom end will be devoid of seeds and pretty much solid....might just be a way of avoiding Blossom end splits with a little trim of the blossom end side female.

1/15/2007 11:17:54 PM

Ray, North Dakota

Hey Eric, I think you are right on the "neat" description of the upside down pumpkin, but isn't that the guy that pours his own urine into his garden?

I wouldn't eat any of his veggies lol.

2/20/2007 2:32:26 PM