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Salem, OR

I haven't heard any definitive answers/theories on breeding the orange trait. What approach would work best to create seed stock that will produce HEAVY orange pumpkins. Is it:

1) Grow something very orange (even if it's light--the 1016 Daletas, say) and then cross it with something heavy and hope that the mother will pass on the color and shape and that the father (pollinator) will add some weight

or 2) Grow something moderately orange and heavy (the 1370 Rose is what I tried) and cross it with something very orange and hope that the orange will be accentuated

or 3) Cross two heavy and orange pumpkins. That's what I'll do with my 606 Clark and 983.5 Isom plants this year (and the 955 Brinkley will be pollinated with the 606, too)

Any theories out there, guys?

I see the 1302 Zulke and wonder if maybe we're heading in a new direction with some growers now who appear to be following method 2 above. The 1302 Zulke has real potential, I think, as an orange and heavy pumpkin pollinated with a very orange pumpkin. What other pumpkins out there confirm that this approach might work? The 1180 Daletas seems to be one

4/24/2007 8:21:42 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Mathew,
This should make for an interesting discussion. I don't have the answers, but can give my thoughts.
I think for seeds that produce consistantly orange offspring, a cross between two consistant orange producers is the way to go. Ex. 940 Mombert 00 X 603.5 Muller and reverse.
For size and color, I would think you'd want at least one parent that throws large pumpkins on a consistant basis, and has a good orange color track record; such as the 1370 Rose, 1180 Delatas, etc. The 1302 Zuhlke seems to fit this category(I didn't go after this seed, and I may kick myself for it).
The 955 Brinkley caught my attention right when I first saw it on the AGGC. It had great color for a 1180 Delatas, nice shape, and heavy to the charts. Being it was pollinated with the 1370 Rose....wow! It seems this seed is going to see its share of dirt this year. Most likely in my patch as well.
Another cross that I think has some nice potential is the 523 Reiss 06(1068 Wallace X 1233.5 Reiss). From the pic I saw, 523 had nice shape and color for a 1068(also shallow ribs). With the 1233.5 as a pollinator, it should have nice color potential. That cross could also exhibit hybrid vigor(if there is such a thing in A.G's)...as the two parents are quite unrelated, I think.

4/24/2007 9:26:57 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I'll add my two cents... I think we oversimplify the problem when we tend to think of the situation as a gene from each parent and a resulting alelle. That is, I think there are multiple genes and many alelles controlling color in AGs. Not only that, I think we see color expressed in various color layers in the fruit. Ever see a fruit that has a muted salmon or orange color, but when you scratch the skin of the fruit a bit there is a bright red or orange color underneath?

Now, this is totally speculation, just throwing out ideas here... this top layer may be thick or thin, color tinted or not, shiny or not... and that may have a lot of effect on the appearance of the inner layer (or layers). A lot of things are happening in concert here to determine the final color.

I also think there might be a nutritional (environmental) element at work here. No, it's not the dominant factor, but the abundance or lack of certain things in the environment can have an effect on the development of various layers.

Having said that, right now the only prescription we have for developing more orange seeds is to cross big seeds that have a known-good history for orange. I'm planting the 1302 and several other seeds that should throw nice orange.

4/25/2007 12:56:30 PM

Netherlands

I'm going to try #3 which is the 1302 Zuhlke crossed with the 1250 Kline.

4/25/2007 3:36:23 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

The 1260 Dawson 06 seems to have slipped thru the cracks this year probably because it wasn't submitted to the AGGC but this was 1370 Rose x 603.5 Muller.

4/27/2007 12:39:48 PM

Dillsburg, PA

Anyone have contact info for Mr. Dawson?

4/27/2007 1:17:47 PM

West Sunbury, PA (ander@zoominternet.net)

The 1260 Dawson seed is available from the club, check out the seed list at www.ovgpg.com. This was a nice orange pumpkin, as well as large. Heidi

4/27/2007 1:39:52 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

I agree, that 1260 Dawson could be a good one. Hopefully someone plants it this year.

4/27/2007 2:17:24 PM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

I always wondered if a little of the color, was contributed by the elemantes in the pumkin patch, like iron gives leaves a darker greenier leaf.

1302 is going to be great
692(?) Dill and the 892 Dill are going to under planted.
1002 Companion has great poteintal

my two cents

4/29/2007 10:20:06 AM