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President - GPC

within a high genetic line have a better potential to pop a big one....? ie 125 Wolf. For instance, a seed from a 1068 pumpkin but the pumpkin was only 200 lbs instead of 15xx......?

10/25/2007 2:38:26 PM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

I have thought about that. It may be, or it may be that since almost all sleepers (new huge fruit that came from somewhere unexpected) come from smaller fruit, it seems more prevalent than really big stuff coming from other really big stuff. Does that make sense...I don't know anymore, lol.

10/25/2007 2:54:37 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

I think the genetics remain within the seed. Despite having poor soil, little sun and a small area, my neglected pumpkin made it to 148lbs. No giant to be sure. The "grandparents" were 1180 daletas and 1097 Beachy. The shape and color are good.I don't think a lesser seed would have done as well.

10/25/2007 2:59:46 PM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

30% were grown from fruit less than 1000lbs. Of those 30, 11 were 998 Pukos. So, in my opinion, those 11 are not only 2 lbs off, but also one of the best seeds out there right now, so we can count them as 1000+.

That leaves 19 of the top 100 fruit in the GPC for 2007, that were grown from seeds from a pumpkin that was <1000 lbs. According to that list only 1 fruit in the top 100 came from anything smaller than a 664lbs fruit. That 1 fruit came from the 305 Beachy.

Of course, all of this could be attributed to people just growing larger seeds, but I suppose its mostly due to genetics. We dont know which genes do what, so even though two seeds from two fruit (one 100lbs and one 1500lbs) from the same plant (using same pollen) have the size genetics, there may also be some different genes that link potential size to actual achieved size which show up next year. Who knows.

Its evolution baby.

10/25/2007 3:12:04 PM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Sorry, 30% of the GPC 2007 Top 100.

10/25/2007 3:13:06 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I think it's a little bit of both. What we really need to know is, "How much care did the small fruit receive?"

We all know that the 125 Wolf has the ability to go big. And as I understand it, Andy grew this purposely as a genetics plant... it didn't get the care to be big itself. But the genes are there. I know because I grew it... (if anybody has another one, I'd grow it again).

On the other hand, if a seed has noteworthy parentage, and was grown with all the care that a top grower would give, and had no environmental setbacks (example: hailstorms) and it still doesn't grow big or heavy, then you have to wonder about that one. Remember, every seed in any particular pumpkin is different.

Think of all the seeds in a pumpkin as fitting somewhere in a bell curve. You might have picked out one of the worst seeds. You might have one of the best. That's why, when someone picks out two 1400 pounders to cross then the result can be spectacular. If we continually pick the best seeds and put them together, the potential gets better and better.

10/25/2007 3:16:43 PM

Georgia

Yes I believe a smaller pumpkin with great genetics can still and will produce massive pumpkins.

10/25/2007 3:38:02 PM

Colorado

look at some of the past famous seeds.842 eaton,723bobier,898knauss, 845 bobier,567.5 mombert. They werent the world records of their era. They were pumpkins with the right mix of genes from two non line bred parents. How do you get the right mix? Thats the question!! More art than science. if you get the phenotype your after when you make a cross and it has great genes on both sides. I saw grow it. regardless of size

10/25/2007 6:26:15 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

I was once told by an experienced grower that the "giantism" often skipped a generation, i.e. 998 Pukos (1420 LaRue X 1446 Eaton), both parents were giants but neither has produced a world record. It has been said that pretty any seed we have out there today has the potential to grow 1000 lbs, but it’s the “giantism” we are looking for.
For this reason one wouldn’t necessarily flock to one of the 1600+ seeds, as the chances of them producing an abnormally large pumpkin are fairly small, however I would suggest that at least one of the 1600+ pumpkins will appear in the pedigree of a future super seed!

10/26/2007 11:48:05 AM

Colorado

Countrykid's point is a good one. I might add that the giant often times comes through from the male side. dont ask me why-cause I dont know

10/26/2007 2:55:07 PM

Kuna, Id.

look what the 26 Beachy grew

10/26/2007 3:36:23 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Interesting observation John(CountyKid). Something to ponder anyway.

10/26/2007 3:51:17 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I love a good mitochondria discussion! lol

I don't know if I haven't guessed the correct spelling for mitochondria, or if the spell checker doesn't know the word.

10/26/2007 8:54:10 PM

Ohio

I dunno, the 1450 Wallace produced a 1566, the 1407 wolf produced a 1445, there really hasnt been that many Giant-ism pumpkins grown yet to make that assumptions yet, I don't know if I agree with that or not but you could be right.

10/27/2007 4:23:58 PM

Ohio

No one has grown a seed from 1600lber yet so how do we know for sure is what Im saying, the 1502 produced some biggies, these pumpkins will eventually have a limit on how big they can get dont they?

10/27/2007 4:26:27 PM

President - GPC

Check out just what this year meant to the 1068 Wallace, How many more grown and how many more over 1502......

At first I thought this was a poor weather year across the country......appears not so....best pumpkin results ever......I chalk it up to grower education....and the information age...now doesnt this make next year even more enticing....?

10/29/2007 9:00:49 AM

Rhode Island

whats in the seed is far more important than how big the pumpkin was that produced the seed.
having said this i still prefer seeds from pumpkins over 1,000 pounds .

i truely feel that to get to the higher weights eventually we need the genetics of say a 1,400-1,500 or 1,600 pounder mated with the right male pollinatorthat will take it to the next level.

what that cross is ? really guess work and a little luck along the way.

i think several of the 998-1041-1068-1450-type crosses could be special next year.

time will tell

pap

10/29/2007 10:28:53 PM

Washington

Thad Starr's 1500+ Half Moon Bay winner came out of a 225 pound pumpkin.

10/30/2007 10:00:52 AM

Thad's was grown off a seed from a 227 pound fruit. It's those extra 2 pounds that pushed Thad over the edge.

10/30/2007 10:43:54 PM

Somerset,Ky

Billy Burton from Kentucky 1st year grower grew his
1,394 Burton 2007 from 275 Van Hook 2006 (1,443 Palmer X 1,407 Wolf)

10/31/2007 7:47:33 AM

Colorado

look at the 998.6 pukos seed.Parents 1446eaton and 1420.5LaRue. Offspring a 998.6 pumpkin in the patch of a world class grower(offspring was 400 lbs smaller than parents- took that generation off?).that seed produces new world record 1689 in a world class garden.I'm telling you something funny is going on with these seeds!!!lol

11/9/2007 3:40:11 PM