From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Bemidji Minnesota

If any of what I have observed from reading a lot of posts, and viewing a lot of diaries is incorrect here, please correct me. Being a newb here, and after reading a good number of back posts, I have found out some interesting things, and made a few observations.

One of which, is that certain shapes are prone to splitting, and others seem much more durable. Same thing goes for pumpkins that tend to go heavy, being more sturdy. Makes sense as a thicker wall gives more support. Basic physics.

Too concave of blossoms leads to a thin wall on the blossom end, and can result in splitting. I am very curious as to what the wall in the current “bench mark” of the Jutras 1689 looks like. Being that it is concave, I would think it is at the most slightly thinner than the rest of the pumpkin (someone correct me if I’m wrong on concave blossoms being thinner than the rest of the fruit). The concave blossom, or “apple shaped” pumpkins.

Then there are those of the “pear shape” with a convex blossom end. The Wallace 1502, and the Bosworth 1402.5 (both off of the 1068 Wallace), had very thick blossom ends. The 1402.5 was so thick that the split caused by a 2” drop (due to a chain break) did not even make it into the main cavity.

The Bosworth 1402.5 shows an amazing durability. Is that normally consistent in the “pear shaped” giants, or can that also be seen in some shaped more like the Jutras 1689?

In the Quest for bigger and bigger weights, the importance of thick walled, and durability has to be increasingly important.

Someone please correct be if I’m wrong about the “pear shapes” having thicker blossom ends. I find this sport fascinating.

10/26/2007 6:08:55 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

I like your questions. I don't know the answers, but it's questioning like this that makes the late fall/winter interesting here.

10/26/2007 6:36:35 PM

Colorado

I cut up my pumpkins every year to inspect for thin blossums. internal cracks etc. Tall pumpkins tend to have relatively thin blossums. concave blossums tend to be thin also. Ive seen concave blossums you could wash a five year old in hold together. One good question to post would be how many people had good pumpkins with a sucked in blossum split this year. I lost my fastest grower(125 wolf) to a BES this year.

10/26/2007 6:51:04 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

Thanks guys, I try to ask non-typical newb questions. I never have given dairy products to plants either ;-p .

Any how, back to the topic. Another "pear shaped" (sort of) is Don Young's 1662 monster. 1068 genes too I think.

I would Bet a my entire 6 pack of Newcastle here that when Don's 1662 gets cut, hopefully carved into a nice looking jack-o-lantern (it deserves it), it reveals a thick wall, and very thick and sturdy blossom end too.

10/26/2007 10:13:06 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Don had me thump his pumpkin before it hit the scale, and it seemed to be incredibly solid. The only thing about that one that would have worried me was the sag line.

I can't say that thin blossom ends are the only cause of splits. I lost an 808 Beachy to a blossom split in 2006, and that one was nearly 10" thick at the split. It was somewhat pear shaped with a convex end.

Another trait that I consider besides shape is the stem. Don's 1662 had an enormously thick stem, 24" circumference. That must have helped pump up the fruit, as well as resisting splits. And the past 2 years the Carlson/Petersen team has brought in massive green squash with encredibly long stems. No problems with them causing any stress on the vine.

10/28/2007 11:12:37 PM

Rhode Island

breeding for shape ,size and wall thickness is something ron and i have attempted to do for many years years.we also sought the advise of good friend abd genetic guru al "long gourd" reynolds

last years 1502 grown from 1068 wallace female x 1354 checkon male and the 1450 wallace 1068 x 1068 plant that grew the 1502, were planned crosses. especially the 1068 x 1354.

this years 1502 offspring (1470) when opened was 12 to 14 inches thick all around including the bottom plus no internal splits and no visible dill rings , a low ,long, wide pumpkin (bomb proof as i like to call it)
we pollinated the 1470 with the 998 pukos.----we know what that seed did as well.so the 1470 must see dirt in the wallace patch in 2008. the expected result? orange, thick walled,sag line free,over the chart pumpkin.

the plant that grew this 1470 was also the source for a pollinator of my 1450 which grew the 1278. the combination of two almost identical shaped long,low,wide, thick walled pumpkins is very incouraging for 2008.

the point is we pre plan our pumpkin crosses as to obtain a couple of desired results. mainly size, shape, color and wall thickness.

the use of champion blood lines (for lack of a better term ) are also a big key to pumpkin breeding.

of course none of the breeding matters if the seeds do not get the proper care and attention once they start to see soil.

pap

10/29/2007 8:14:53 AM