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President - GPC

Several of my seeds this year do not have a full brownish outer seed shell. I have seen many seeds from other growers in my bubbling look the same also. Is there any thought to why this may be. It is a lack of nutrients?, not enough growing time?. It appears that the cots will be smaller from these seeds and they are smaller.......Interested in your thoughts about this occurence........

11/21/2007 12:27:34 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Some event causes the seed to not fully finish developing. I suppose it could be that a mild nutrient deficiency might prompt the seeds to stop developing their shells especially once a fair number have been produced. Heat or other environmental extremes mahbe? It's an intriguing question.

I think I once read that the 723 Bobier displayed this tendency (not sure).

11/21/2007 9:28:03 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I have seen that but I don't worry about it. I think it might be genetic. We grew our biggest pumpkin from a seed with an undeveloped tip. That one was a cross of a 1097.5 Beachy. The seeds in that pumpkin had the same undeveloped tip. About a fourth of the seeds from the pumpkin I grew from a 1200 Trumm had the same trait. The 1200 Trumm was a 1370 X 1097.5. Those are the only ones that I have seen like that and the only ones we grew with the 1097.5 parentage. Not proof, but at least it shows a pattern.

11/21/2007 10:45:58 PM

The 723 (the two seeds I've seen) both had that (a brown outer coat that just stopped at one end), and were the first seeds to germinate each of the two years planted.

I don't think it's a bad trait!!! :)

11/21/2007 11:00:41 PM

Ontario, Canada.

I have attempted to study this occurrence of off coloured hull less seed at the distal end. Often I have noted that the seed is empty or hallow. I believe this may be referred to as triploid seeds. Hull less or some or manifestation of this trait meaning sterile.

I believe this to be genetic trait related to inbreeding of the C. maxima seed line. Amazingly I found a 1981 study that concluded there was inbreed depression on fruit grown on the main vine while side vines produced no vigor depression.

Although this is a bit off topic it has been reported in past studies that some lines of C. maxima have aquired poor fruit set characteristics and inbreeding depression after two and three generations. Can this be why todays modern squash carry forward these two traits of smaller fruit and fruit set resistance. I believe it may be a practical assumption.

I may be out in left field on this but I became engulfed in this topic over the past few days.

11/24/2007 8:01:59 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Hybrid Seed Production in Vegetables: Rationale and Methods in Selected Crops By Amarjit S. Basra

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=UdM4OXYNX9cC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=triploid+seeds+pumpkins&ots=1bCT3OLiyz&sig=kPrnbO2Z52q6qAk-7VgvIMHD9xQ#PPA1,M1

11/24/2007 8:05:17 PM

Ontario, Canada.

http://redalyc.uaemex.mx/redalyc/pdf/331/33132428.pdf

11/24/2007 8:24:42 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Triploid hybrids are highly sterile and fruits may have small empty seed coat or occasionally few seeds (ROBINSON & DECKER-WALTERS, 1997).

11/24/2007 8:30:34 PM

President - GPC

My 500 cross had this exactly.....Would this be a sign of possible hybrid vigor, or the weeding out of may happen when cousins do the tango.......?

11/26/2007 9:57:17 AM