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Bemidji Minnesota

Did the 1689 Jutras have 4 or 5 lobes?

I know the 1502 Wallace was a 5 and the 1347 Wallace was a 4 I believe.

Does the lobe count have any bearing on the size/shape/seed count at all, or is it just a random genetic variation?

4/26/2008 5:13:00 PM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

I think it was 5.

I have read articles and it seems that 4 or 5 doesn't matter. Six lobe is too much and 3 lobe is too little. $$

4/26/2008 6:21:04 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

Does correlate to seed count, or internal rows of seeds, or the amount of ribs on the adult fruit?

As far as genetics goes, do seeds from parents with 5 lobes, if pollinated together always produce 5 lobes female offspring, or is it just random as to weather or not 4 or 5 lobes show up?

4/26/2008 6:57:37 PM

Rhode Island

each lobe represents a future seed cavity in the pumpkin. we have no preference be it 4-5-or 6 segment.
( we will not keep a three however)

never really pollinated a 6 banger but id give it a try if i ever had one.

our main concern is getting the planned crosses we want ,shape of tiny fruit and natural angle off the main.

to much being made of 4 verses 5 segments. not a big deal either way.

grower skills make the difference. number of lobes do not.

pap

4/26/2008 7:48:17 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

thanks pap,

So that represents the amount of seed cavities.

Does it make any difference as to how many ribs are on the outside of the pumpkin, or just the internal cavities?

4/26/2008 8:27:51 PM

Denver, CO

The 1689 Jutras is listed on AGGC website as a 4 lobed pumpkin. The picture of it shows 15 external ribs, with only about 3/4 of the pumpkin showing. I dont think lobes have an effect on size or shape of the pumpkin. Your only consideration between 4 or 5 lobes might be the size of plant you have space to grow. And Pap is right, skill can make or break you regradless of other factors.

4/27/2008 12:07:04 AM

Rhode Island

meathead
amount of ribs on pumpkin is a genetic trait.
lots of narrow ribs or fewer wide ribs in my opinion is just the luck of the draw.
if you have internal splits ( dill rings) then the less ribs the less chance of a pin hole blow out where the deep rib indentation intersects with the split which is inside the fruit.
usually if your lucky and get a fruit thats a steady grower at say 32 pounds per day you can make it.
however, if you get one thats pushing over 40 pounds per day for several days she is likely to blow at the intersection or the blossom.
this is another reason why history of the seed you wish to grow is so important.
pap

4/27/2008 7:15:43 AM

Cincinnati,OH

Here's an interesting thread on 4 & 5 lobe pumpkins
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=240782

4/27/2008 11:58:57 AM

Bemidji Minnesota

Wow, thanx guys for all the good info. For the record, I was not asking to see if the difference in 4 or 5 lobes was some sort of grower secret to giants or anything absurd like that. The question was more one of scientific curiosity.

These are really some amazing plants, in terms of the fruit they can put on, and I am one of those guys who likes to know a lot of details.

There is nothing else really like the giants of the C. Maxima variety, of anything else know, where in a single season, a plant can put 1000+ pounds of nutrients & liquid into a single fruit.

4/27/2008 2:04:42 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

Ron, thanks much for that list here: http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=240782

Very informative read.

Either way now that I know that, if I got a good set and a fast growing fruit, it does not matter if its 4 or 5 lobes.

Would be interesting if those statistics would also compile seed counts as well, seeing that the lobe count makes little difference, if any, in size and shape of the resulting pumpkin, maybe take a look at seed counts may reveal something too.

4/27/2008 2:18:53 PM

Denver, CO

meathead320,
I am the person who made the statistical analysis refered to in the above post by Ron. I just want to stress that what you were orginally asking was size, shape and seed count. What we can say from my data, is simply that 4 and 5 lobe pumpkins are both capable of very huge pumpkins but it appears to take a diffrent plant size to acomplish this for a 4 lobe versus a 5 lobe. What we can not say is shape and seed count differ in any matter. And without a through scienticif approach by all growers, we will never be able to.

4/28/2008 10:17:50 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

ghopson,

Are there any numbers on how often seeds from a 4 lobe plant will grow 5 lobe plants and vise-verse?

Going by your original analysis, they are still so similar in potential (even if needs are slightly different), that it almost seems like the equivalent of hair color, or curly vs. straight hair, or eye color. Genetic trait that vary not just with individuals, but even parents and offspring themselves.

Hence why I ask if 5 lobe plants ever throw 4 lobe offspring, or 4 throw 5 lobe offspring too.

4/29/2008 12:48:18 AM

Denver, CO

There is probably a genetic reasoning behind what type of female flower appears on a vine. But essentially, regradless of the pumpkin from which the seed came from, the resulting vine will produce both 5 lobe, 4 lobe some 3 lobe and every once in a while 6 lobe female flowers.

Really, as Pap has stated, there is no viable reason at this point in our knowledge to factor the number of lobes into your decisons on what pumpkin to grow. There are a whole host of other factors that we know for certian are more important.

5/3/2008 11:15:15 PM