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Ankeny, Iowa

Hello,
I hope that everyone's season is going well. I have recently been doing some research into the selective breeding behind the Atlantic Giant pumpkin variety. As a second year plant science major and a passionate giant pumpkin grower the research I have done has inspired me to propose an interesting challenge. I propose that a group of growers not only focus on trying to grow the largest pumpkins like we all allready do. But also to try to create a sort of " super strain" of A.G. that consistantly grows 800 (or even 1000 pounders). The strain can also have certain improved traits such as disease/insect resistance, drought tollerance, heat/frost tollerance, etc.
I know this sounds very complicated right? I do think this feat is very possible to acheive. We in the giant pumpkin grower's community have such a vast amount of genetic, agricultural, scientific, and innovative knowledge at our disposal. As a way of easily accessing all of the information to make this "challenge" possible. I propose that a group of growers form a panel to discuss and trade information. I know there are allready organizations in place, but I'm thinking of something a little different than what's allready being done.
I don't want to make this post too complicated by filling you all in on too many details at once. But if anyone is interested in possibly forming this "super panel" of growers intended to better the genetic line of the A.G. pumpkin variety please post a reply on this thread.
I just thought that the panel would be a great way to organize all of the knowledge we have first in order to make it "easier" to pursue the goal of creating a "Super strain" of A.G.s.

Sincerly,
Junior

8/14/2008 9:16:20 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Interesting post Junior.
I'm not sure how disease/insect resistance could be incorporated, without genetic engineering, or introducing other C. maxima genes into the mix. The later would result in smaller progeny I would think.
One way to possibly create a super A.G. would be to cross two highly inbred lines of A.G.s. It could produce more consistant results, a hybrids typically do.

8/14/2008 9:51:28 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

"as hybrids typically do"

8/14/2008 9:52:05 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Junior, have you thought that this is exactly whats already being done, minus the formal panel?

8/15/2008 1:06:30 AM

South East

I think a lot of todays seedstock, given the proper care already has the trade of growing consistent 800lbs or more. Its not the seed thats the problem, its the other variables such as : soil, care, weather, geografic location, and last but not least the grower. Its these who prevent a seed to reach its full pottenial. A super ag strain, would be useless without enough sunlight, perfectly balanced soil and adequate care. Any panel to form, would be better off discussing how to perfect all this, instead of discussing possible crosses. Theres not a lot crosses already done. And theres plenty of dreamcrosses hardly planted. The super ag maybe out there already, waiting to be discovered.

8/15/2008 7:59:56 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Frank is too fast. Most seeds now can already consistently grow 800-1000, just need the right cultural practices.

8/15/2008 11:09:38 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I think there might be some potential here... in the context of a multi-year project. That is, we all do things in one-year increments. Take two really highly sought seeds and cross them. Then, we're off on another one season project.

That might be a little blunt, but I think you know what I mean. There are a few select growers out there who are focusing on certain things. There was a grower out in California I think who was dealing strictly with his own strain of very colorful fruit. But aside from color, not much is being done.

The question in my mind is, what could be done if we had people willing to commit 3 to 5 years (or more) to a project?

8/15/2008 12:14:11 PM

Western NY

The problem is getting people to agree on certain seed/seeds for a starting point.

I have a rough idea of where I want to head with my particular plan, but as always obstacles pop up. The planned cross this year didn't work out (bad male plant - decided to pull it instead of using something inferior). So, the backup plan takes effect, which may be even better, depending on how some of this year's pumpkins do to the charts.

If things go right from here on out, i'm looking at probably looking at more than 5 years from the starting seed.

8/15/2008 12:41:20 PM

Ankeny, Iowa

That's exactly what I was getting at, Cliff. I'm thinking that if a group of growers can organize a panel and start exploring crosses and figure out which cross to grow then the rest is fairly simple. The "super strain" project isn't designed to be done in a single year or by a single person. It will take a minimum of 5 years to get a highly inbred seed line that can then be field tested by the growers and improved upon until a "super strain" is created. The super strain will take several years to perfect, but I think it's worth while to give it a try.
The super strain panel will also be a way to ensure that the "super strain" seeds are indeed being activly grown year after year by growers. Then information can be passed amongst the growers on what can be improved upon and how it can be done. I don't think anyone has done a project quite as extensive as this before.
This project is a GREAT way to help us all acheive our goals of growing bigger and heavier pumpkins. For example if a super strain is created then it would be possible for any capable grower, even those like me with small patches, to produce 1000+ pound pumpkins. Who knows maybe if a super strain is created we could start seeing 2000, 3000, or even 4000 pounders one day. Wouldn't that be awesome?
I'm just getting started with this idea, but I can provide more details if anyone is interested about how the panel will work, how the members will communicate information, etc...
If anyone is interested in helping to possibly form a "super strain panel" please let me know.

Good Luck,

Junior

8/15/2008 9:45:39 PM

Minnesota

Paul Rys is the guy in california, I tried to get a hold of him this spring and could'ntfor his really orange/red pumpkin seeds.

8/15/2008 10:59:29 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Hey Andy,

I nominate your 964 as a headliner for the super strain!

(Is it possible to get another?)

Send me an email: cliffwarren@yahoo.com

8/16/2008 1:26:27 AM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Some genetic engineering to get the Bt trait into AG's would really help with insect problems. It has done wonders for corn production in this part of the country. Just imagine, a pumpkin plant that kills cucumber beetles and vine borers if they bite into the plant.

8/16/2008 9:51:15 AM

Greencastle, PA

Junior,
A lot of growers are already doing this. The problem isn't that growers aren't talking about how to create a superseed, it's that we are incapable of the mass plantings that we would need to do in order to select the best genes.

The 1445 Marsh (1407 x 695) has impressed me with its apparent insect and disease resistence. Has anyone else noticed such qualities in this seed?

Tom

8/16/2008 6:26:51 PM

Midway, UT

I would be interested in doing this. With the proper controls put in place I think this could yield some interesting results. Growers who are saying this is already being done are somewhat correct, but without proper scientific controls put into place they aren't getting the full research value and strains that could be yielded.

8/19/2008 12:07:41 PM

Greencastle, PA

ArvadaBoy,

You're right on about the controls. The best way to go about minimizing the variables would include planting them right next to each other. Do you have room for 100 Atlantic Giant plants? What about time, irrigation, and energy?
Tom

8/20/2008 8:30:04 PM

Ankeny, Iowa

The control method that I have in mind isn't going to be based on a single experiment. It's going to be a cumulitive effort taking place over a number of seasons. So there will really be no need for a grower to plant a large number of plants dedicated to the Super Strain project. The reason for the panel of growers isn't just for information exchanges, but it will also be for coordination of who will be growing which super strain seed.
The control method that I have in mind now is that the growers within the panel ( minimum of 5). Will each be participating in a different part of the super strain project. Each grower will grow giant pumpkins as usual, but the first season of the project will involve each grower having their own cross that they will be incharge of. The idea is to use the winter months to coordinate who will plant what and what the project plans will be for the next season. The super strain project will start off with many crosses, but overtime the growers will coordinate what to cross and eventually a single strain with many different characteristics will be developed.
The growers also don't have to devote all of their planting area to the super strain either. For example if a grower normally grows four plants two plants can be super strain plants and the other two can be whatever seed they choose to grow. Even the growers with room for only one plant can still participate in this project. One plant can be grown in the patch and the other plant can be grown in a large container for pollination purposes.
This project is still in it's infancy, but I wanted to try to get it started this fall and use the next couple of months or so to coordinate exactly how it's going to work and to obtain some seeds for the super strain. I'm hoping that if I can get a few growers interested that we can try to get it started for the 2009 season.

Junior

8/21/2008 10:03:15 AM

i am interested in this super strain.

9/4/2008 5:00:53 PM