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Ohio

I have selfed seeds in the past, and this is just my opinion, and I can be totally wrong on this, but I have been thinking about selfed seeds alot this past year, and Im starting to lean more twards selfed seeds might not be as good as I once thought. From what I have been seeing, like from research on the AGGC,from what I have grown,and have seen others grow, and by talking to other growers, that selfed seeds really isnt doing as good as I thought they would. If you look at all the selfed seeds out there how many stick out in your mind that has grown a really big pumpkin consistantly?
Seems like to me ,and this is from what I have grown,and have seen others grow, that you get alot of weird shaped fruit and weird growing plants from a self seed, just seems more so then a seed that hasn't been selfed.

There is one seed that I have found that was selfed, that has done well, and that's the 735 Stelts seed.(Im sure there is a few more out there,but not many). Just seems to me ,and this is just my opinion, that a seed that has a cross with something completely different from each other grows better......for me anyway,lol

Whats you guys opinion on this?

9/21/2008 11:54:20 AM

Colorado

hi brooks.What youve just described seems true(theres no absolutes).Selfed seeds dont have a good tract record.I dont know why-selfing is a good idea in theory.We growers should try to make good crosses but often the best seeds arent planned.Its one of the things that make AG's fun and unpredictable.

9/21/2008 12:36:50 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Brooks,
I like selfed seeds when it comes to nice, orange-colored pumpkins that have been selfed. The 603.5 Muller is one that has done well in this regard. The 603.5 had great color, and was heavy to the chart. Most of the 603.5 offspring I've seen, seem to exhibit these traits.
Another selfed seed I like is the 769 Lombardi. Mr. Lombardi has a nice one growing on that seed this year.
It will be interesting to hear other comments on selfed seeds.

9/21/2008 12:42:35 PM

Netherlands

A selfed seed grew the WR squash.

I don't think selfed seeds get near the planting of non-selfed seeds and certainly not by those growers that are capable of growing the giants you are looking for.

9/21/2008 1:30:30 PM

Ohio

The 603 Muller and the WR squash never even crossed my mind, but you guys are right they are selfed.

I think a selfed seed gets its fair shake of growing time. But what selfed seed has a good track record for growing ,huge giant, consitant type pumpkins? You would think atleast 3 seeds out there that are selfed grows these type monster pumpkins,isnt there?

9/21/2008 1:54:13 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Brooks,
Brad's last paragraph may be the reason why you don't hear of "monsters" from selfed seeds.

9/21/2008 2:00:13 PM

Adams County

the 1450 wallace has done pretty good hasnt it ( 1068 x 1068 ) if i'm not wrong

9/21/2008 2:49:13 PM

ordinary,VA

the 1450 was a sib.

9/21/2008 3:42:10 PM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

The 735 Pukos threw some big ones

9/21/2008 4:17:30 PM

Ohio

916 Barenie (selfed 845)- 3 over 900#
I don't think they get a chance. Newer growers like me are willing to grow them, but we don't have the experience needed to get that "monster" pumpkin.

9/21/2008 4:44:56 PM

South East

How many heavy hitters grew a selfed seed lately?

9/21/2008 6:13:28 PM

Western NY

brooks - the 735 Pukos (selfed 846) grew a 1225 last year.

the 846 was never able to grow a 1200 pounder.

by this logic, your 1402 could grow a 1700, but who knows.

9/21/2008 8:11:33 PM

ExtremeVegetables.com

A few to keep an eye on from last years crop.

1450 Wallace 2006 1068 Wallace x self
1402 bosworth 2007 1068 wallace x self
1297 ghaye 2007 998 pukos x self
1174 ghaye 2007 1502 wallace x selfed
1018 vanhook 2007 1450 wallace x self
1468 Richards 2007 998 Pukos X self
1319 Greene 2007 1005.9 Werner X self
1289.5 Bosworth 2007 805 Pukos X Self
1224.5 Kirts 2007 735 Pukos X Self
1180 DeLeeuw 2007 986 Platte X self
1106.5 Lieber 2007 1347 Wallace X Self
1106 Blais 2007 520 Rondeau X self
1095 Dwelly 2007 1225 jutras X Self
1089 Mudd 2007 781 Companion X self
1048 RAHE 1450 Wallace X self
1024 Shoemaker 1248 Ford X self
1018 VanHook 1450 Wallace X self
966 Adams 977 Wallace X Self
954 Piazza 775 Piazza X self

A few sibbed also:
1068 papez 2007 1068 wallace x 1068 wallace sibbed
1662 Young 2007 1068 Wallace X Sibbed
1005.5 Sawtelle 2007 1180 Daletas X sibbed
710.5 Wolf 2007 1407 Wolf X sibbed
683 Lishness 2007 847 Pinkham X sibbed
1001 Kilne 2006 1110 Kiline X sibbed
624 Leonzi 2006 1081 Leonzi X sibbed

9/21/2008 9:06:49 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

The 1450 is a sib.

What percentage of seeds that see dirt in the patch of experienced growers, growers who grow 1000+ lb pumpkins, are selfed seeds? 5%? Less? How many of the top 100 pumpkins last season were on selfed seeds? I haven't done the research myself, yet. But I can think of atleast 3 large pumpkins grown on selfed seeds last year. Some times selfed seeds work out, some times they don't, just like all other seeds.

9/21/2008 10:07:24 PM

Ohio

The 735 Pukos I did mention as a good growing selfed seed, I probably am completely wrong on this and I hope I am, because I have selfed alot of my own seeds in the past ,lol.
I do hope more growers grow these selfed seeds to see what we come up with,but to me, over the past year I have just seen some funky looking pumpkins from a self seed . I hope you guys are right about the 1402 seed though!!,lol, Todd Skinner has a good one going off my 1402, but he said its one of the ugliest miss shapen pumpkins he has ever grown,(ugly= HEAVY?)lol!
I talked to Joe Pukos the other day about selfed seed growing, and although he isnt totally against growing selfed seeds he told me he would much rather grower a sibbed plant before a selfed. I also talked to Dave Stelts about this and said he prefers a crossed seed over a selfed,but we never really got in to detail really about why he prefers not to grow a selfed.
I think I have been looking for a selfed seed that grows just about like its mother has, and I haven't really seen that yet, like a selfed 1068 Wallace, or a selfed 998 Pukos and some other great seeds that has been selfed and growing just like the mother seed has, I guess time will tell.

9/22/2008 4:26:37 AM

Ohio

The 1450 was a sibbed seed.

9/22/2008 4:29:05 AM

South East

Our 897 finders is a 1363 x self. Grow it. lol ;)

9/22/2008 6:52:09 AM

ExtremeVegetables.com

I grew the 1450 this year. I can't find the package at this moment but the GPC does have this seed listed as selfed.

9/22/2008 6:55:21 AM

ExtremeVegetables.com

Pack says 1068 Wallace X 1068 Wallace (pollen WR)

Sounds like a sibb to me, but it sure would be nice if these were reported accurately/corrected. It's the third discrepency I've found.

I've crossed it with the 1306 and vice versa.

9/22/2008 7:08:02 AM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

Sorry Brooks, you had listed the 735 Stelts.

9/22/2008 7:24:03 AM

Litchfield N. H. 03052

take it from me the 1450 was a sibb,

9/22/2008 4:15:55 PM

ordinary,VA

Hey Greenhousin,
the AGGC site has the 1450 listed as a sib.
below is from a post pap made on 2/29/08


"pap Rhode Island
boys

i actually wanted to do a 1450 sib just as i did when i sibbed the 1068 to grow the 1450

i only have three seeds left so im doing the next best thing. im planting a seed from joe jutras 1,300 plus pounder of last season (1450 x 1068 ) and will cross with this years 1450 pollen into the jutras plant .
then ill pollinate the 1450 with that 898 if she goes

its all a crap shoot anyway"

9/22/2008 4:51:46 PM

Cincinnati,OH

As PA says I think selfed or sibbed seeds are like any other some do well others don't.
I grew my 1048 Rahe this year but couldn't get a pumpkin set on it. I also grew the 1018 VanHook as a genetics plant. If I had planted the 1018 in my competition spot I would have had something big this year.

9/22/2008 4:59:52 PM

Colorado

the 1450 is a sib.the pollinator was the plant that grew their 1502.not a bad pollinator!!!

9/22/2008 6:46:28 PM

Colorado

I have to agree with Pa punkin's comments.You'd think that the traits of a selfed seed would we more consistant than a less inbred cross.even with a selfed seed you'll find a lot of variation in the pumpkins it produces.I havent had much success with selfed seeds.there seems to me a higher dud %.

9/22/2008 6:56:45 PM

Lloydminster/AB

Most people think that the offspring of a selfed seed should be more consistent but the opposite is true. When two different lines of plants are crossed the dominant genes express themselves and most of the offspring have similar characteristics. When you self pollinate a plant dominant genes overpower recessive genes and now it is also possible for dominant or recessive genes to line up with themselves causing chaos for the growers of such fruit. Most fruit will be very different from each other. Now if you do grow a fruit from a selfed seed that you like and it was itself selfed, that fruit should the be very consistent producer and with each successive self pollination become even more consistent.

Selfed seeds need to be grown in large numbers and then sorted from in order to get the fruit you want, most people will be disappointed but a few will be pleased. Selfing is a great breading tool but can cause havoc for grower with just a few patches. There is far more chance of a dud. That is why selfed seeds get a bad reputation.

That being said I got lucky in my patch this year and one of my 1137 plants threw a fruit that looked EXACTLY the same as the 1137 (well... except for the big hole in the blossom, doh!). Unfortunately I only saved a few seeds from rot . Hopefully one of them will sprout and I can put the theory to the test.

Don

9/22/2008 10:03:59 PM

Bethlehem CT

Hi Brooks, I am prejudiced against selfed seeds, no real reason. For me it takes away some of the excitement of a cross. That is why I grew the 1019 over the 1402. Although that seed is pretty close to being a selfed seed (3/4s 1068 Wallace and 1/4 1469 Checkon. LOL)

9/22/2008 10:52:08 PM

Cincinnati,OH

I think Don has a good point about selfed seed. The 603 Muller has consistantly thrown orange fruit.
Last year I did some research on the 900.5 Lyons*
I looked at all of the progeny from all of the selfed 900.5 Lyons seeds.
The 895* Hester was the only one to consitantly grow green fruit, not an orange one in the lot.

9/23/2008 5:57:19 PM

Preston CT

Ask Mark Lombardi....1157 off his own selfed seed....

10/30/2008 9:28:11 AM