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Springfield, Missouri

Eddy had a post going about the 998 vs 1231 which are reverse crosses. I have heard of some plants being better pollinators than producers, but dose it really matter in the offspring such as the 998 and 1231 as to what pollinated it and what produced it as to how the seeds will preform? If it dose make a differance in how the seeds will preform why dose it do that because it has the same genetics other than the mitochondria?

What are the characteristics that you should look for in plants to make them a good pollinator or a good producer?

Thanks

Logan

12/10/2008 12:00:15 PM

Springfield, Missouri

By parent and producer i am talking about the seed that grows the pumpkin or the female side of the cross.

12/10/2008 12:01:23 PM

Preston CT

The 998 seemed to do well with the 1068 in the 1385. I planted the 1130 Jutras which had the 998 as a pollinator. It did not seem to show up in the phenotype....Those characteristics were all 1354. We will see how my 1116 Traylor does this year which was pollinated with the 1385. My 1116 is 1/4 1354, 1/4 1068 and 1/2 998, so we will see what shows up this year in the external characteristics. The 1116 did go 7% heavy which I presume came from the 1354. So I think the 998 as a pollinator will not show dominate traits...just my observation in my patch...My 1385 was bright orange but low and wide...Split at 40 something days and taped 990 at day 49....How did the 1689 do this year?

12/10/2008 12:33:53 PM

Berlin,mi.(zuhlke2@hotmail.com)

1689 reported progeny. 4-1000lb+, 2-1100lb+, 3-1200lb+, 1-1300lb+ top ten avg. +3.98%only one dmg listed. not bad for the 1st year out.

12/10/2008 1:25:51 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Very nice results from the 1689. Typically it seems that the world record seeds don't become top producing seeds. It looks like the 1502 and 1689 are bucking that trend.

12/10/2008 1:46:48 PM

Coventry R.I.

Go to no Steve,,, Thanks for the info,,,,

12/10/2008 3:23:11 PM

Springfield, Missouri

so dose it matter? what characteristics would you look for in either parent?

12/10/2008 5:55:25 PM

Lloydminster/AB

Logan Simple answer ..Big pumpkins. In reality I don't think any 2 seeds out of a pumpkin are the same , there are some that take after the mother and some that take after the father and others will have fruit that are some combination of both. Seeds that get a good reputation are seeds that usually are quite consistent, probably from a lot of inbreeding. If you do a little research on Mendelian genetics you will see why we go crazy when our crosses turn out like crap. There simply isn't enough known about dominant and recessive genes in AGs .

12/10/2008 7:58:41 PM

Eastern Washington State

Everybody please re-read Don Crews last post. Each and every sentence. It is something that has really needed to be said here. Without fixing alleles by inbreeding, there is simply no way to accurately predict how any individual seed from a cross will behave. Some crosses will obviously be better than others, but its really a crap shoot.

12/10/2008 8:27:42 PM

Going Green

I planted two seeds from the same pumpkin and had one pale orange and one dark orange pumpkin! Both were great growers with steady gains.

12/10/2008 10:27:00 PM

Colorado

Well put don!! If youre a aggc member look at the photos of the offspring of any of the heavily grown seeds.

12/11/2008 2:14:53 AM

(rocky) Bonney Lake Wa.

Heres another case in point I grew the 1689 this last year and it had the size and shape of the 998 Pukos but it was a cream color and looked nothing like the the mother or any of the ones that made it to the scale in 08

12/11/2008 2:58:52 AM

Cincinnati,OH

I checked out all of the progeny from all of the 900.5 Lyons x self seeds. Why is it that the 895 Hester produces only green squash and the others produce mixed results?

12/11/2008 9:42:15 AM

Eastern Washington State

C.R.B.
The situation is similar to that of children from the same family. Mother and father have brown hair and eyes and of course most of the children look similar. But that doesn't mean the next baby won't be blond and blue eyed! That's because of the genetic variation hidden within the parents since we are not an inbred species.

12/11/2008 10:05:28 AM

Eastern Washington State

Ron

I don't have access to aggc. Is the 895 a progeny of the 900.5, and you are looking at the 'grandchildren' of the 895?

If so, then 895 is probably 'fixed' for the recessive squash color. It has no red gene in it to crop up in its progeny.

Most likely the 900.5 was heterozygous for the trait. Are there enough progeny to estimate the expected ratio of 3:1 (or possibly 9:1) orange producers:squash producers from the 900.5 progeny?

12/11/2008 10:13:07 AM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

I believe Brett Hester grew a pumpkin off the 895 Hester.

12/11/2008 10:16:50 AM

Long Island,New York

Thats the rumor eddy, but so far theres been no proof. I have yet to see a picture or result of a orange one off the 895. Perhaps now that Brett is back we will see one or some pictures?

12/11/2008 10:40:52 AM

Long Island,New York

Brian...perhaps Brett can add to this but I believe the 986Hester* was the product of the other 900lyons plant that Brett Sibbed?....895*=900* x sibb, 986*=900* x sibb ..... both plants cross pollinated, both plants used grew squash. The 895 has only grown squash and was grown a hundred times I bet....the 986* has only grown orange pumpkins as far as verified public records are concerned. (There were rumors of squash off the 986* in Smith's patch?). The fact of the matter is there's no public proof of a squash off the 986* or a pkn off the 895*....which, if we are to believe they are sibbed 900Lyonses puts the popular color genetic opinions on thier ear....

12/11/2008 10:48:37 AM

Colorado

No surprise there.If the squash(or pumpkins) are line breed for two or three generations then expect the offspring to be much more consistent.Only prob. is the squash weights are way behind what were calling pumpkins.

12/11/2008 11:20:30 AM

Cincinnati,OH

Brian, the 900.5* Lyons grew 10 pumpkins and 12 squash.
The 895* Hester was (900.5* Lyons x sib)
The 895* Hester grew 35 squash.
Other 900.5* Lyons x self or sib seeds grow pumpkins and squash.

12/11/2008 2:42:23 PM

Long Island,New York

Ok i see Brett posted to other threads at 5:29 and 7:20 but not to this one. So on the outside chance its no longer in the "whats new" when he pops in next time I posted this .....and he should see it.....looking for info brett !!

12/11/2008 7:39:25 PM

Indiana

I still have not seen any deviation from the dominant/recessive punnet square thingy G.....in every things I ahve ever grown

about 75 squash over the years and lots of crosses. All have behaved as expected.

Any new ideas?

12/11/2008 7:48:00 PM

Eastern Washington State

I agree, Tom. Thanks Ron and LIpumpkin for your responses. It seems as though everything here could be consistent with the squash coloration being a simple mendelian trait recessive to orange in this genetic material.

12/11/2008 9:56:19 PM

Springfield, Missouri

I would agree that the grene gene appears to be a ressesive trait but I think it is more complicated than that, If there is only one locus "loci" or places where certin alleles for a particular gene on a chromosome, then we most likley have codominant genes or a multitude of diffrent alleles that can be at that one particular loci. There is most likley a 2 or more diffrent loci that determine just the color of the pumpkin which is why it is so hard to predict what color or shade of a color the fruit will turn out to be.

I own a cornsnake so it is easyest for me to explain this by using them as an example, and they also happen to be the "perfect model" for this.

These snakes have 11 diffrent loci that can determin color and all are simple ressive except for one that happens to have the ability to be codominant. If none of these loci posses both ressive alleles that particular gene they will have a normal color, they can also be double, triple, or even quadrupal ressive by having both pairs of ressive alleles for 2,3,or4 diffrent loci or genes.

Here is a website if you would like to down load this genetic calculator, it is more advanced than any of the other programs i have seen on this site as far as genetics go. It is very interisting download it give it a look play with it and then delete it or do what you want with it it is just a visual to my example. It is also possible to make new programs on this to prodict genetics for any thing you want if you know a particular gene and if it is dominant ressive or codominant and only one loci effects that gene.

http://www.cornsnakes.nl/GenericGenWiz/MPGW.htm

12/11/2008 11:55:42 PM

Springfield, Missouri

sorry if that was hard to understand i left commas out

12/11/2008 11:58:26 PM