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Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Is the following scenario possible?
Grower plants 20 Phat Jacks (for example). (can they self pollinate?)
Grower self pollinates every pumpkin in this patch.
The following year and thereafter;
Grower plants only the seeds of the largest and always self pollinates
I'm aware that bad traits could develop along with desired traits but is it perceivable that the general size of the pumpkin will trend to be larger?

Which leads me to ask (of course because of Neperley's contest) is this or similar being done by anyone now?

I am also interested in how this would compare to other breeding techniques for size.

Finally, can 'hybrid vigor' be matched with self polinations?

Thanks for any response.
John

3/31/2009 9:41:14 AM

Eastern Washington State

Certainly you can get extremely vigorous inbred plants. Some crops seem to be easier than others. Some species tolerate inbreeding quite well, with others, a few generations will result in a train wreck of misshapen, sterile plants. The same is true for hybrid vigor. Not a lot of research has been conducted on squash, but a few papers on summer squash showed moderate levels of hybrid vigor as measured by tonnage per acre yield (not fruit size). So it seems to me that a reasonable strategy would be to plant your plants, self pollinate and select as you indicated for the top 2-3. Then after a few generations of selecting the best the intercross the lines to restore vigor. Brian

3/31/2009 10:12:37 AM

Bemidji Minnesota

From what I understand AG's hold up to it rather well, and after a couple generations the seeds also give a more consistent color and shape.

3/31/2009 1:17:44 PM

Breslau, Ontario, Canada

I always wondered about selfing selfed seeds. What are your thoughts on this matter?

John

3/31/2009 6:27:27 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

George Lloyd selfed a couple of his 687's then crossed those two which produced his 935. One romantic evening with Mr. Mettler and budda big budda boom.

3/31/2009 6:42:05 PM

Eastern Washington State

Meat that's what I'm going for, getting color and shape down.

John from what Meat said, selfing for a few generations would be fine.

Andy I don't know enough about AG geneological history know what you're talking about. I assume it means that this could be a viable strategy?

3/31/2009 7:31:23 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Brian, I like your strategy. I like to try seeds that are already selfed, that came from a pumpkin with nice color and shape. A couple to consider are the 769 Lombardi and the 1008.4 Reiss. These aren't the only ones by any means.

3/31/2009 8:04:55 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Sorry Brian, the 935 Lloyd is the female of the 723 Bobier and 845 Bobier. Both are 935 Lloyd x 865 Mettler. I mentioned the 935 because it was created from two selfed plants that were then crossed with each other. The 865 Mettler introduced the genetic variance(vigor) that led to the extraordinary results produced from both seeds.

In short, it is a very viable strategy.

3/31/2009 8:45:07 PM