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Springfield, Missouri

This is the second year in a row that I have started a 664, both last year and this year the plant has been deformed. Has any one else noticed this with the 664? I know most people talk about them being slow to start but could some mutation be responsible?

Last year I started one and it looked good, however after the first 2 leafs there was no meristem or the part where new growth is formed. I had to dig it up and i put it in a large pot. After about a month on stalks of the leafs about 25 meristems started and i had alot of random growth. I took cuttings and now i have a clone but it grows normal.

This year i noticed the normal slowness, this morning i checked to see if a stem was starting to develope under the soil line. My finger brushed up on the plant when i was moving the soil and it moved and i thought o crap i broke something or its rotten, after examination there are only 2 to 4 very small deformed roots( about one mm long).

My theroy is that some communication with cellular processes is out of wack in these seeds and that is why they are typically slow and why i have seen mutations like this, but if the plant can get past infancy it is able to out grow it.

Any thoughts?

4/29/2009 10:51:59 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Cells in all organisms can send messages with chemical signals and receptors, like growth hormones or other cemicals that tell the cells to preform certin tasks or to grow in diffrent ways. Like a root, or vine, or leaf. This is what i am talking about in my theroy.

4/29/2009 10:56:26 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

I'm growing the 664.5 this year Logan.I was a little worried at first when it was a little slower than the rest to germinate . It also seemed to take it's time standing up and that concerned me. As of today the plant is very stalky and looks just as healthy as the rest of my plants. The plant to me seems like it has absolutly no intentions on becoming leggy and there is no abnormalities that i can see. I feel for you Logan. Good luck with the rest. Carl.

4/30/2009 6:30:12 PM

My head hurts from all this theory stuff, last year my 664.5 was slow germing so I "peeked" at day 8,,it wsa a clubroot the first time I had seen one since I germ in pots. I planted it and everything turned out pretty well getting a new pb @ 1313#

4/30/2009 8:43:57 PM

Going Green

Unkadan...My head hurts from all this theory stuff. Would it be possible for you to give others a little respect. I know that it hurts your head. My suggestion is ....if you don't have anything nice to say...don't say anything at all. I am sure your mother told you that! Not everyone is at the same place on bigpumpkins. We all have different experiences and sometimes you just have a brain fart! If something is said that hurts your head...go take a pill or drink a beer, please. I respect your opinion but feel that all of us on bigpumpkins need to respect others thoughts and opinions. Thank you for your time!

4/30/2009 10:48:15 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Pumpkin Farm...this respect you talk of..Does it include slamming someones seed say it has mutations?

5/1/2009 8:00:21 AM

PF I was hoping we were rid of you after this thread:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=1&p=233064

5/1/2009 8:33:02 AM

Ohio

Pumpkin Farm, not being smart here, but I dont think Unkadan was being smart with his comment, it surely wasnt taken by me in the same way as you read it to be.

5/1/2009 8:37:40 AM

Minnesota

I did'nt think he was being a smart ass either.

5/1/2009 9:40:55 AM

Eastern Washington State

Logan lots of things can cause developmental abnormalies in seedlings: Pathogens (fungal, viral, bacterial),growth regulator applications, post-harvest treatment of the seed. Now I'm just thinking aloud here, but its possible that funky seedings can result from stress to the parent plant during seed development. My $0.02 is that what you are seeing is likely due to something other than a mutation. The fact that your plant eventually outgrew its abnormality argues strongly for this point of view. If you saved seed from last year (especially if you selfed it), why not go ahead and plant a bunch of them out and look for transmission of the trait to the offspring. A heritable trait would argue for a muation. At any rate more than two observations are needed before drawing negative conclusions about someone's seed. If you do that progeny test please post the results. Precious little is known about AG genetics.

5/1/2009 1:46:25 PM

Eastern Washington State

Oh and pumpkin farm, relax, dude! Dan's post didn't read like an attack. Even if it was I think Logan is perfectly capable of defending himself if he sees the need.

5/1/2009 1:49:58 PM

Going Green

I appreciate all of your opinions. I am an amature at this compared to all of you and I have been slammed for a lot of different things. Opinions are opinions and a question should be answered or left alone. If Pap were to ask a wild question you would give him respect and answer him differently than you would answer me, Giant Jack or that 15 year old boy that was told off last year on this site because he mistakenly posted 18 weights and seed names asking for advice on crosses when in reality he had 6 seeds which some generous grower sent him and he listed the seed he had and the female and male genetics as though they were seeds he also had! Ken is aware of the harshness on the part of some on this website and has asked more than once that a person used a little judgement and kindness in thier reply! Because you and I may never meet or you and Giant Jack etc. is no reason to berate that individual. There are many of the truly great growers that do not post on this site because of the distaste they have for the replys they read on the site! What I am trying to say to Unkandan is that their are people of all levels on the website and it would be best for everyone if the comments or replies were fashioned so as to 1st answer thier question and 2ndly not to demean or put down an individual! Brooks B is a wonderful example of someone who answered it this thread with compassion and tempers his comments with thought. I just want to get along on this website. Have I made any mistakes in my behaviour. I may have! Was it intentional NO it was not! BrianB says I should relax, dude! I think that is good advice Brian and ask that all of us not take ourself so seriously! If Unkadan comment where he said My head hurts from all this theory stuff wasn't disrespectful I apologize. His next comment to me was the disrespect that I am talking about:
PF I was hoping we were rid of you after this thread:

5/1/2009 3:56:43 PM

Colorado Springs.Co

Instead of starting a similar thread I though I would stay on this theme here.

I have a 500 Northrup x 1180 Daletas that discarded the seed and grew a nice pair of cots over a week ago but hasn't developed any above soil growth since.

I took the inner pot out of the outer pot and there are roots emerging out the drain holes.

I don't feel I'm hijacking this thread because I think the whole subject is a good one and I know with all the combined growing experience of folks on this site that there are others that have had germination issues and can make recommendations.

My question would be, should Logan or I give up on said troubled seeds? Or should patience be a virtue here.

5/1/2009 4:00:25 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

If reading made my head hurt i wouldn't read.

5/1/2009 5:31:16 PM

Pleasant Hill, Or

This is exactly why content and participation on this site has stagnated in the last few years. A relatively new grower asks a somewhat legitimate question, (which could have been answered using the search feature) and a very accomplished and respected grower answers. Pumpkin Farm, you totally misunderstood his reply and elevated your response to a personal attack. You speak of expecting respect, but show none. You are right, not every one is at the same place, that is why we ask questions and hopefully those with more information answers. Attacks like yours accomplish nothing other than causing people with something worthwhile to contribute to not answer questions anymore. Without the guidance of seasoned growers, it will all be theory.

Thad Starr

5/1/2009 6:09:44 PM

Colorado Springs.Co

PF, I asked about seeds last spring and before I was able to send bubbles out I went to the PO box and had 2 packets of nice seeds. I started a few more than I had room for and offered the extra plants on Craigslist for free and they found a home.

If I were to ask a buck a piece for the seeds that came at the expense of my own money and hard work I might, I haven't yet. I kind of have ethical problems even with that when folks were nice enough to send me the original genetics free.

5/1/2009 6:11:00 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

OH my nerves

5/1/2009 6:20:13 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Starrfarms. I thought you were talking about me when you said a very accomplished and respected grower replied. 1144lb on maybe 250sqft. 812 on approx 150sqft. Not to mention climate and length of the growing season. lol

5/1/2009 6:58:41 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

As far as the guidance of a seasoned grower goes. I've never had one. I wish i was as fortunate as you. Carl

5/1/2009 9:45:35 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Dan is a good guy and has helped me out before, I took no offense. Brian, thanks for the post, that all makes sense, however, i had like 4 or 5 other plants i started the same way and all others were normal. But like you said any thing like stress could have caused this especially with a seedling that already tends to be slow.

Shaker if you dont put it in the patch go buy a big pot and plant it in there to see if any thing changes. If it does start to grow you can always clone it and plant it some other time. I did not want to waist the 664 because i really liked it and bought it at auction and did not want to let it go to waist and my patience payed of because now i have a clone i can plant or pollinate with. So its all a matter of choice to the grower to put up with it or not.

Thank you again for all of your replies.

Logan Duncan

5/2/2009 11:52:33 AM