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Covington, WA

I just responded to an earlier post by Brooks and it got me thinking about all the old seeds that growers have shared with me over the years that have never been planted. We all have them. Crosses that look great on paper and nobody has ever given them a shot because we all chase after the latest and greatest. This is for you growers that have some space. I would love to see you choose one seed at least 3 years old that has no known progeny and see what you can do with it. We've seen how many different pumpkins have produced huge fruit this past season and just how much potential is out there. But I think we've only scratched the surface. I think there are a lot of great seeds out there that can be as productive as the top ones in current favor that just never got a chance to show their value. Go through your seed bins or look down your list at some of the great crosses you collected over the years and pick one out to try that hasn't been grown before. You might be surprised by what you do with it and you may learn something in the process. If you look at the family trees of the top producers you find they have a lot in common. Most often the 723 and 845 Bobier, 846 Calai, and 898 Knauss in some combination in their parentage. Choosing a seed with a combination of these in the background gives you a good chance at growing a respectable pumpkin. Choose something unrelated and you could do just as well. I just think it's a shame that we are potentially losing some great genetics because we all want to grow the the same thing. So is anybody up to this? Does this idea have merit? I know I'll be planting some older seeds next year, it's the least I can do as a thank you to those growers who shared them with me.

11/8/2009 2:21:50 PM

Anchorage, Alaska

It is a nice thought, that's for sure.

If the goal of the sport is to get greater weights in better looking pumpkins, what we are doing now is the correct method.
I tend to believe the trend in increasing weight is not found through diversity, but rather focused genetic selection.

Try to look at it this way; the current system is to grow the trendiest seeds, and looks a lot like a tap-root system when represented graphically. What you are describing is more of a fibrous root system with no clear dominance.

Furthermore, I agree with your point about seeing how many fruit have produced top weights. Maybe we should interpret it as having already achieved the goal you describe.

If there is a "perfect genetic makeup" where weight is only limited to environmental factors, we will select for it no matter which strains are developed. The more energy spent on diversity by experienced growers will only add to the time it takes to achieve the perfect pumpkin.
Ultimately, the difference in top weights from year to year will gradually decline and as it does we will find the trend turns towards growing varied seeds (ironically, the difference in those seeds will pretty much be the name of the guy who grew it last.) The perceived weight profit from popular genetics is just too great to ignore at this point in our hobby.

If you truly want to give thanks to growers who have provided you with excess seeds, then offer those seeds to people who wouldn't otherwise have grown a giant pumpkin.

11/8/2009 3:06:18 PM

Mn

I have been going through genetic trees like crazy recently. It is amazing how many good crosses have not been grown. My focus has been on heavy genetic pumpkins. There are some "Handy" seeds that have peeked my interest. Some with 730 stellpflug and 1056 stellpflug that look good. I am not sure if they are still around or viable though. It would be interesting to through those genetics into the current mix we have now though.

11/8/2009 3:54:08 PM

Greencastle, PA

Alex, I have one or two 492 Handy seeds from 2000. It's the same cross as his 545 from 1999 (664 Eaton x 730 Stellpflug). If you'll plant it, it's yours.

Tom Beachy has a few younger seeds with the 730 in them. He made an 846 Calai x 730 Stellpflug about 5 years ago, I think. That seed deserves to see more dirt.

11/8/2009 7:18:50 PM

Glosta

I have a 1344.5 Rose 05(723 Bobier x 1180 Daletas)that I plan on growing. And also a 1347.5 wallace 06(1068 Wallace x 1370 Rose)Do these fit your criteria

11/10/2009 12:12:18 PM

Mt. Pleasant, MI

I did a few old/new crosses this year.
1026 Young (1385 Jutras X 1207 Young) X 735 Pukos (846 Calai X Self). Also did the reverse cross.

735 Pukos X 1313 Bowles (664 Liggett X 1100 Hestor).

Also did a 735 Pukos X self just to see what would happen selfing a selfed seed.

11/10/2009 1:23:11 PM

That State Up North

720 Rose '03

11/10/2009 7:53:15 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

Do you have anymore 1347 Wallace's left. I'd like to try planting it.

11/15/2009 1:41:53 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

I like the 1005 Mombert as a base to start with. Crossing Tom's 893 into it last year and Quinn's 1521.5 into the resulting cross this year really has me excited for next year.

11/15/2009 7:55:57 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

Hey Nic, if you're talking about the 2001, that has always been a highly intriguing cross to me. I'm interested in hearing what you might think about crossing into that seed, if anything? BF

11/15/2009 10:00:30 PM

Covington, WA

I thought this topic might bring the snake out of the grass. The 618 Beachy 03 is the 846 X 730. I actually have one of those. There's another one I have to think about. The 891 Tanner 03 and 925 Emmons 04 uow are also the selfed 735 Pukos, the 846 Calai has been selfed by a number of growers one of which I've grown was the 1033 Emmons 04, The 947 Dornwaard 01 is also the selfed 846 and Shellie Cramer selfed that to get the 582.5 Cramer 02. I'm also looking at the 694 Greer 99, there's so many old seeds that haven't had a chance to produce anything that still could be the next great one or part of it if they ever get planted while they are still viable. Newman makes a good argument, but I still feel like we are losing something with the current trend. I for one would love to see someone pop a monster with one of the old unproven seeds and send some folks digging in their bins to see if they still have that one themselves.

11/16/2009 2:41:22 AM

That State Up North

Chris if you like the big purified 846 stuff, I have my 401A'02 that is 1167 Handy (largest 846 to date) x 947 Dornwaard, grown in a field plot of 600 plants and ranked #3 tied with another 401 for largest in the field. The 947 was middle of the road and heavy for its size. That 401 also grew a great shaped 636 for me the next year in a lower care situation where I was testing some seeds.
The 636 is 401A'02 x 401B'02
The 401B is 1061.5 Ciliberto (723x935) x 1107 Girgus (723self) this one was particularly heavy, and an attempted 723 purification picking out some of the best 723 genetics of the time.
I have several 401Ax401B crosses attempting to replicate the success of the 842 Eaton with superior lineage on the 723 and 846 genes selected into the cross.

I was mentioning 720'03 because it was grown on the 712 which pollinated the 1370, and was the fastest growing in Jerry's patch, and pollinated with the plant that grew the 1367.5. Combination of great growth, perfect shape, and proven performance in another cross with the same seed.

the 720'01 was also interesting, but never proved it could perform to the next level with other similar crosses where the 720'03 could very well have 1500+ in it

11/16/2009 8:55:47 AM