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Waterville, Ohio

One of the first questions I have I will show the 1658 Young as an example. The 1658 was a 1288 Wallace x 1026 Young cross. Both the 1288 and 1026 were 1385 Jutras x 1207 Young crosses. I understand that we pick our certain crosses so that they will hopefully produce the traits that we desire, however would it be true to say that by eliminating new genetics by combining 2 generations of the same parents "purifying the gene pool" we are creating a more vigorous plant/fruit?
In the case of the 1449.5 Traylor, the 1116 Traylor was crossed with the 1385 Jutras. The 1116 Traylor had the 1385 as its pollinator "father", by combining 2 generations of the 1385 as the pollinator could I theorize this same idea that by crossing the same seed twice into a plant that it could become more vigorous?

Hopefully I can have some of the bp crowd provide some feedback to make some sense of what I have been thinking about. Thanks.
-David

12/14/2009 3:17:47 AM

Ohio

I think alot of us are hoping that is true David.

I been trying to do a 1068 Wallace cross over the years hoping to purify the genes as much as possible.

Im not trying to promote my seeds on this thread but wanted to show you what Im trying to do.


Last year I crossed a 1450 Wallace (1068 x sibb) x 1402 Bosworth 1068 x self),which grew a 678 08' Bosworth.

So that cross there alone has a shit load of 1068 Wallace in it, well 100% to be exact,lol.

What I plan on doing is crossing the 641 Bosworth '08 (1068 Wallace x 1402 Bosworth (1068 x self)) with the 678 Bosworth 08' (1450 x 1402) next year to then see what kind of pumpkin it grows. LOTS OF 1068 WALLACE IN THESE TWO SEEDS!,,LOL


From what I have seen out there that there isn't very many cross's out there with the generation after generation cross like this done with this much 1068 Wallace in it.

And what I really like about this generation after generation the 1068 Wallace is that I feel its still ranked high up there with growing the 1700 lbers like the newer type cross's we have today in 09'.

12/14/2009 5:24:40 AM

El Paso TX.

Like your idea there Brooks - I was going to start a similar crossing this year (if things go right !) I've got a couple of seeds the 270 Young est 09 (1385 Jutras x 1502 Wallace) and the reverse cross in the 763 Young 09( 1502 x 1385) that I plan to cross with each other this season and was thinking of trying to recross the results in 2011.

I think these 2 genetic lines have good potential since the 1385 brings the 1068 wallace and 998.6 Pukos genetics and the 1502 brings even more of the 1068 Wallace along with the 723 Bobier (as the 1354 Checkon was 3/4 723 Bobier) genetics

12/14/2009 9:11:17 AM

Preston CT

The 1385 Jutras has WR 998 Pollen in it. I was trying to cross in as much WR pollen into the seeds...This year I hope to cross in the 1725.

12/14/2009 9:35:50 AM

Midway, UT

I like your thinking.

My plan for next year is to cross the 1236 Harp with either a 1725 Clone (if Wiz ends up getting one) or a 1385 Jutras. With the clone cross you would have 75% 1725 genetics which on paper sounds pretty intriguing and all 1068 and 998 genetics.

With the 1385 cross I would have a world record pollinator on either side of the cross (the 1689 pollinator on the one side and 1725 pollinator on the other) with all 1068 and 998 genetics on either side. The following year I would then cross a 1161 Rodonis into that seed which isn't a big genetic jump (1450 is all 1068 and 1231 is the kissing cousin of the 998). Not much different than what Brooks has been doing but with two sets of genetics in the mix instead of one.

Now I just got to keep the hail off of my pumpkins and get some viable seeds in the pumpkin for once to make this happen. Lol

12/14/2009 12:20:34 PM

Netherlands

I know a grower who did this over a number of years with the 805 Pukos. By the time he had got what he wanted the 805 was no longer a hot seed so the project got abandoned...

12/14/2009 1:27:54 PM

Waterville, Ohio

Interesting info everyone. Brooks, if you don't mind, keep me updated on how your crosses do this year, the 1068 Wallace is getting up there in age, but I to don't believe that it has less potential then today's hot seeds.
As in the case of crossing 1725 genetics into either the 1236 or in the 1449, I'm presuming this is because the 1725 was a selfed 1385 and therefor keeping the idea of genetic purity would hopefully escalate both your plants size and future seeds potential. Not, to mention the amount of 998 and 1385 genetics that the future seeds offspring would have incorporated into it.
JD your plan also sounds like a good strategy. Alot of great genetics in those two seeds.

I'm thinking about these things because I along with all of you are not only trying to get the most out of the 2010 season, but also trying to create a seed that I can use for future seasons. Trying to make sense of certain genetics and the potential that a specific cross could produce just kind of boggles the mind after awhile.
Thanks for all the input so far, greatly appreciated.

12/14/2009 4:25:20 PM

Ohio

I dunno about that Brad, I like the 805 Pukos alot, but dont feel its in the same ball park as the 1068 Wallace, and the 805 Pukos was only hot for only about 3 years, the 1068 has been hot for almost 6 years now and I say it has at least another 3 years to go before that seed isn't keeping up with the newer cross's (seeds) being grown today. The 1068 is still one of the greatest seeds of all time along with the 1385 Jutras and 998 Pukos.

I only have one more year of the 1068 gene cross's I want to do to be finished, and then I want to give that seed a fair shot in some great soil , cause I know in the right hands and in the right patches I know growers will be able to grow that seed big. Unless it turns out to be a total dud, which very well could happen,,, naw,, never happen,,lol!!

12/14/2009 5:51:43 PM

Anacortes, WA

Brooks..Have you tried a 1507 Jutras yet? There is a little bit of 1068 in it.

12/14/2009 10:44:00 PM

ExtremeVegetables.com

I've been working on a similar project.
2007, 1306 Jutras = 1450 X 1068
2008, 823 Perry = 1306 Jutras X 1450 Wallace 3% heavy
2009, 984.5 Perry = 823 Perry X 1306 Jutras 14% heavy

Looks like it's headed in the right direction so far.

This season I plan on crossing my seeds back to the 1507 and possibly something with a lot of 1385 in it.

12/15/2009 6:40:04 AM

Preston CT

My 1507 was sterile as I think Mr. Jutras's was as well. Just keep on crossing in good genes and you will do fine. You just need to grow one of the offspring of your own seed every year....So give your own seeds a try...

12/15/2009 7:29:41 AM

Ohio

Dick, no I haven't, but you really have me thinking about that seed now,,lol!!
Don't know how I missed that 1507 but I over looked that seed with all the 1068 Wallace it has in it. For some reason I kept thinking that it had some 998 Pukos in its back ground and that sure isn't the case at all, that 1507 is also 100% 1068 Wallace! Thanks for posting about that seed Dick! You really got me re thinking some cross's here now,,lol!

Dwain, I also like the way your heading on your cross's, especially with the heavy you have grown off your 984 seed. And now that you plan on crossing that 1507 into your 984 ,look out!

12/15/2009 7:35:06 AM

Ohio

2007 1402 Bosworth (1068 Wallace x self)15% Heavy
2008 678 Bosworth (1450 Wallace x 1402 Boz)
2008 641 Bosworth (1068 Wallace x 1402 Boz)

Im going to plan these cross's next season, and really thinking I will cross the 1507 in there now thanks to Dick,,lol Hopefuly something good will come out of these cross's

2009 season,,

678 Bosworth (1450x 1402) x 641 Bosworth(1068 x 1402)
and reverse cross)

2009
1507 Jutras (1450 x 1068) x 678 Bosworth(1450 x 1402)

12/15/2009 7:49:38 AM

Ohio

Hate to keep beating a dead horse here,,lol,, but Joes 1507 looked almost exact to my 1402 Pumpkin minus the snout, th colors and shape are almost exactly the same. Thanks again Dick for mentioning that 1507,,lol.

12/15/2009 7:58:33 AM

Preston CT

1507((1306)(1450 x 1068) x 1068))

12/16/2009 6:25:21 AM

Anacortes, WA

Brooks...I wanted to do a 1507 x 1306 cross this year but couldn't come up with a 1306. This would be compounding the 1068 about 7 times. Wonder if Joe did a 1507 x 1068 this year to keep the string going.

12/19/2009 10:53:24 AM

Preston CT

Joes 1507 did not make it....

12/21/2009 6:24:35 AM