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Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

I'm wondering why this seed hasn't attracted any attention, especially from those who place such a high emphasis on % heavy. The 832 went 23.28 % over OTT chart. It was grown on a 1139 Sherwood that went 22.42% heavy and pollinated by a 1068 Wallace, yet there are no progeny listed. What gives? If there is a tone of cynicism please forgive me. In the world of % heavy this one would seem to be a slam dunk, why isn't it?
There are other under appreciated seeds that I could have mentioned, this one just came to mind.

3/7/2010 9:44:45 PM

Clayton, Ohio, USA

There were 570 pumpkins that made it to a weighoff in '09 that were heavier than 832 lbs. If they contained an average of 300 seeds each, then that's 171,000 seeds.
There simply aren't enough growers to plant everything that has merit out there.

3/10/2010 1:59:18 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Swing and a miss.

3/10/2010 3:39:25 PM

Georgetown, Ontario

I guess that pretty much shuts down this thread...ouch.

3/10/2010 8:00:06 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Lol, no offence intended although Bodene missed my point. I was trying to be subtle ( maybe too subtle ) and get a rise from the % heavy club who put % over ahead of genetics or track record for that matter. This is a quote from Joe Pukos in 2001 that holds true today:

In regard to the 705 Stelts, this is one of the most sought after seeds in the world. It has grown a 1230, 1140, 1049, 1016, 966 and 922 all or most with an awesome orange color. The fruit might appear to weigh light, but some of these monsters are literally off the charts. I am not convinced that a fruit weighing light (or heavy) is tied specifically to genetics, I think soil and weather conditions have a lot to do with it too...Joe P.

Let's keep it real. It's great at weigh off when you expect 1000 lbs. and it goes 1100. It went heavy because of your efforts, preparation and mother nature.

3/10/2010 9:37:22 PM

Nekoosa, Wisconsin

Don't you think it has a lot to do with the dissapointment factor. Most people would like to think that their pumpkin will weigh at least as much as it estimates. And if it might weigh a lot more all the better.

3/11/2010 10:01:15 AM

Ohio

I kinda tend to agree with you Andy on preparation/Mother nature, and I dont fully go along with that if a pumpkin has no flaws, cracks, or dill rings that the next generation of pumpkin from that seed is going to be the same as it parents.
I have seen seeds grown from some really ugly shaped pumpkins that grow some nice shaped pumpkins, and then I have seen some very nice shaped pumpkins with no flaws or inside cracks grow some pretty shitty looking pumpkins that had flaws and some where the blossom ends blew out or ribbed split.

So as far as the next generation of seed being like its Mother and Father I think its probably a 50/50 chance. But every year before I pick my seed out to grow I still like to make myself believe growing a seed from a pumpkin that went extra heavy with no flaws will grow a pumpkin the same way,,lol. I just dont think there is enough proof ether way to say if that is true or not.

3/11/2010 11:45:54 AM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Brooks, you posted a while ago and quoted Quinn, that when selecting a seed, look at the track record of both parents, an excellent strategy that obviously led to some monster fruits being grown. A guy like Phil Hunt deserves a lot of credit for creating the conditions in his patch to allow a great seed like the 901 to reach it's potential. All seeds have potential, great seeds have great potential, but that's all they have. It takes a grower with experience, optimum soil and a little co-operation from mother nature to allow that seed to attain it's final weight. The 901 and other great seeds don't need to pitch % heavy. The results were the fruition of their hard work. I never heard anyone say they wanted a 1068 Wallace because it went heavy to the charts, it just produced heavy pumpkins and a lot of personal bests, like the 901 Hunt will in the next couple of years. % heavy has nothing to do with it.

3/11/2010 9:39:49 PM

Joliet, IL

the nurture vs nature debate will always live on. i have seen different textures of pumpkin flesh and know that each pumpkin has a slightly different compactedness or density to its flesh. it is not the wall thickness that might make the difference, but the actual molecular structure of certain pumpkins that gentetically have a propensity to grow higher density flesh. i have used a soil measuring device called a penetrometer used for calculating pounds per square feet of soil and have tested different flesh from pumpkins. this device is not made for testing of this type of material like fruit flesh, but it still gives me an idea of the firmness of different fruits flesh. for those of you who have carved AGs, some flesh cuts like butter and some is very woody and tough, and much harder to get a knife through. its that tough firm dense woody flesh that i am looking for. i believe this to be genetic and have twice found this trait in pumpkin flesh with 1041 genes which has produced many over the chart weight, not in every pumpkin, but in a good percentage of them. its like the difference between basswood and hardwood. nature will always play a part and i am sure cooler temps vs warmer temps will affect the thickness of fruit flesh which also affect the final weights. soil, watering schedule, climate, growing techniques all in no doubt affect the final weights of each pumpkin. but it is that compact firm molecularly dense flesh that i feel is genetic that can lead to 1800 or 2000 eventually. anyone out there ever notice the difference in the flesh like i have mentioned? anyone notice the difference when carving pumpkins between the woody tough flesh and the flesh that cuts like butter? the woodier firmer flesh has always been found in my pumpkins that went well over the chart.

3/12/2010 8:48:12 AM

Joliet, IL

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=96075

here is something i just found from the archives that is similar to what i was trying to say in my above ramblings.

3/12/2010 9:25:49 AM

Ohio

Andy, Quinn definitely looks at the entire pumpkin inside and out on both parents of a seed that he plans to grow, he even looks for internal cracks and everything. I myself just dont believe yet that a pumpkin that hasnt had internal cracks and some minor dill rings that it will carry that trait over to the next generation of pumpkins. I myself think what causes theses kind of flaws is whats in your soil/or what is not in your soil or even extreme hot or cold weather with alot of rain or just not enough.

I know Quinn goes by how both pumpkins has grown in a cross inside and out and also how heavy both went, and maybe he is right, but Im yet to see a comparison in a mother/father cross with a pumpkin that was grown from that cross that has consistently carried a bad or good trait(flaws) over to the next generation.

I do however still go by how heavy both Mother/father pumpkin have went or are when doing a seed selection though, cause each year the cross's we grow have shown year after year bigger and bigger pumpkins.

3/12/2010 11:46:53 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

Hey Brooks. I think these internal cracks are caused by the weight of our beer belly when we lay on top of the pumpkin streching the tape around 10 times to get an accurate measurement.I weigh 240lbs and the pumpkin iam trying to get the tape around sure looks like it weighs a lot less than me.lol

3/12/2010 10:05:09 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

The next time you feel like you want to lay over the top of you pumpkin Brooks. DON'T. lol

3/12/2010 10:09:49 PM

Ohio

good idea Donkin, never gave that a thought! BA-HAHAHA!

3/13/2010 5:03:06 AM