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Ct

Have a question on how one improves genetics within a seed. Suppose a grower plants a seed and gives it the ultimate growing conditions, fertilizers and such throughout the season. Does this improve the actual genetics in the seed? Or, the other scenario is, suppose a grower sticks a good quality seed in the ground with much less than ideal conditions, does not fertilize, lets weeds grow, etc - would this actually take away from the genetics?

3/12/2010 4:08:55 PM

Rhode Island

the genetics are there no matter what. your results vary depending on just those things you mentioned.your garden and its health will contribute greatly to your results however, a cross is a cross so once the pumpkin is pollinated the genetics in its seeds will always be there.

take two identical twins for example---- put one in a home where food and quality of life is abundant and all the advantages are made available.
take the other twin and place in a poor home with little to no food, poor quality of life,no advantages etc.

even though both had the same mother and father which do you think will stand a better chance at a healthy productive life?

although growing anything in a garden is a far comparison from bringing up children ? the basics for quality of life are much in the same.

3/12/2010 4:51:26 PM

Ct

So basically you can actually improve the genetics in a seed { or it's future offspring } by good gardening practices?

3/12/2010 7:34:10 PM

Ct

...meaning, the genetics have to start somewhere, no??

3/12/2010 7:34:31 PM

Waterville, Ohio

The genetics are already in the seed you wish to sow. By good gardening practices you can bring that seed to it's full potential. You can grow a 200 lb pumpkin without good gardening practices. Say the cross you made with that 200 lb pumpkin was a 1385 jutras x 1161 rodonis. The next year a grower that put alot of time into his season prep, could grow that seed from your 200 lb pumpkin to be 1,500 lbs.
In summary by good gardening practices you will only be positvely helping your chances at growing a giant, not improving the genetics in your seed.

3/12/2010 7:47:16 PM

Pataskala,OH

Yeah you cannot change genes. They are already predetermined. If you know anything about genetics there can be recessive dominant co-dominant traits ext. A gene can be present but not show up in the phenotype or become blended with another trait. So basically you can have traits that have not existed before because the allele was not combined with another allele. Actually genetics are pretty hard to explain. LOL If you want the basics look up Mendel and his pea plant experiments.

3/12/2010 8:35:34 PM

Anchorage, Alaska

Actually, you can change which genes are activated through things other than strictly criss-crossing DNA. If you are interested look up epigenetics.

A good example is that when fat female mice were heavily supplemented with B vitamins during pregnancy, their offspring for 13 generations showed drastic decreases in obesity rates. Fat female mice with no B vitamin supplementation continued to produce lines with strong tendencies towards obesity.

It is a developing science, so you will not find much pertinent information for our sport. The proof of concept has been made, however, and there is no question in my mind that attention to detailed nutrition will benefit pumpkin growth for following generations.

Good luck.

3/13/2010 11:15:43 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Sorta thinkin, I am giving NO B vitamins to my pkns this year!!! Peace, Wayne

3/13/2010 3:59:01 PM

Ct

I guess my question was, that the genes had to come from somewhere, so your saying that they've always been in any given seed, as far back as...well, who knows.

3/13/2010 4:29:21 PM

Corryton, TN

Maybe not in any given seed. The potential size/weight of any pumpkin is not controled by a single gene. It is surely controled by a multitude of genes. By crossing these improved lines we are incrceasing the probability that their offspring will have more of the genes that increase the potential size of the pumpkins.

Hypothetically if it takes 30 giant genes to reach 1000 lbs and there 100 genes that control size that leaves 70 that could make small, medium, large, etc. but not giant. This does not even take into account dominate and recessive genes. With this said I have no idea how many genes it takes to get to a 1000 lbs!

3/13/2010 5:14:49 PM

Ct

So ideally, the best crosses would be the heavest x heaviest?

3/13/2010 8:49:08 PM

Anchorage, Alaska

Yes, we cross heavy x heavy or large OTT x heavy.

The genes have been there since...who knows ;)

If you really want to blow your mind, think about the fact that an amoeba has 670 billion genes and we have only 3 billion. (Of which we use about 20-30,000)

3/14/2010 8:26:44 AM

Corryton, TN

I'm not so sure that it has to be heaviest X heaviest but I do want a stacked pedigree with parents that have produced heavy.
If all pumpkins could have the EXACT same growing conditions and care then heaviest x heaviest would work quite well.
Personally I'd like to grow a seed from any growers largest pumpkin that was pollinated by their second largest (or reverse) that grew 6 or more pumpkins that were given as equal of care as possible and were weighed about the same time. A stacked pedigree is a must.

3/14/2010 2:39:26 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

So, the concensus seems to be a "stacked" pedigree!!! Any idea how many seeds available today would qualify for that "Pedigree"? LOL Sorta humorous, sorta serious, sorta think I already know the answer!!! Peace, Wayne

3/15/2010 5:13:23 PM

Corryton, TN

I know of one that fits, just not sure if Joe grew 6 or more in 07. That was my first year and I couldn't bring myself to ask for one, BIG MISTAKE!!!

3/15/2010 7:10:05 PM

bliss,n.y.- heart of Wyoming County

What? No milk?
How are the AGS going to enjoy OREOS? LOL
Bill P.

3/16/2010 7:47:47 AM