From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Napa Ca.

Why is the seed from a selfed plant not looked at as a viable prospect as would a crossed one? Any history to this ?

5/25/2010 9:25:33 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

735 Pukos ???

5/25/2010 6:16:32 PM

Cincinnati,OH

I guess everyone wants discover or create a great new cross.

5/25/2010 7:52:34 PM

Napa Ca.

No, the 991 urena, Remake of the 998 pukos the 1420larue/1446 eaton cross. I was speaking in general terms why crosses seem to be more sought after then the selfed ones. Good guess on the 735 pukos though. The 991 has produced a lot of heavy ones this last year.

5/25/2010 10:36:31 PM

New York

A good cross can give you the genetics of two great seeds rather than just one.

5/25/2010 11:21:45 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

sam, 1725 Harp was a rather sought after seed this past off season!!! I do understand yer point, tho!! and sorta think that past results,(am I correct in assuming that most world record's were set on non selfed crosses?) combined w/ Ron's point are prbly the reasons why!!! Peace, Wayne

5/25/2010 11:54:30 PM

Napa Ca.

Sorry, That was probably a little confusing. I planted the 991 last year and selfed it producing a 1170. And of course i want to plant the 1170 this year and anticipate crossing it with the 1330. Good point on the crosses. Thank You.

5/26/2010 12:56:41 AM

Colorado

I think some of the thinking is we wont get to 2000 pounds if we self everything at 1725.No right or wrong here.So do we breed for even bigger or do we breed for a more consistent seed that will have a ceiling at the current world record.

5/26/2010 1:46:56 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

I think the 1725 could prove a to be a great breeder. The largest pumpkin ever grown crossed with itself, sounds like an ideal breeding seed. No guarantees, but after this year, we should have a decent idea of how it performs.

5/26/2010 10:46:39 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Good thoughts, Doug...my question at this point in time is...? How many 1725's are seein dirt? Hopefully lots of them, although I am a major slacker, and have planted other seeds this year. 1725 will be planted here next year, for sure!!! Just too many seeds in line ahead of it, for my lil 5 plant patch!!! Peace, Wayne

5/27/2010 11:30:23 PM

Rhode Island

a good friend of mine who understands breeding much better than i swears by the 1725 seed. he claims it will be a fantastic pollinator as well.
his reasoning? ya have the biggest pumpkin ever grown and it was self pollinated keeping the seed offspring geneticly intact.
time will tell.

5/28/2010 4:51:41 AM

New York

I can understand that logic. I do think it would be interesting to self the 1725 one more time and see what happens next year. Wayne, I've noticed quite a few diaries of people planting the seed, and I know Christy Harp spend a while last year sending them out...

5/28/2010 8:40:16 AM

Eastern Washington State

Sam,

There is a large bias against selfed seeds here. It probably started by textbook-case examples of avoiding inbreeding depression and gaining heterosis (hybrid vigor). People have generalized this to believe that a plant from selfed seed will show inbreeding depression and that heterosis will only be observed in crossed seed. Not exactly true all the time.

Pap's friend is correct. If you want to look up strategies used by other field crop breeding programs, you will find that a lot of selfing (as well as crossing) is used to create seed that is better and more reliable. You can probably search on this site to see one simple strategy I outlined, but it wasn't well received. Anyways it was similar to yours and what has happened by chance with the 1725. Good luck!

Brian

5/29/2010 12:07:11 PM

Napa Ca.

Thank's Brian.

6/4/2010 8:21:13 PM

Las Cruces NM

Complicated subject! But as brian points out selfing ... backcrossing ... it is all in the breeders bag of tricks. It is done to strengthen the gene pool. Some of the 1725 should be real winners, and subsuquently grown ... but many will not ... because they are hybrid genes. Species tend to bear true nearly all of the time because it is the same gene pool. With AGs you can plant seeds from the best orange and end up white ... if the white happened to be pollinated with another great orange ... the white could then produce great orange. it is basically probability, hence 1725Xself is a good probability but because of it genetic line. Me thinks brooks is smart ;)

6/8/2010 1:16:12 AM

Youngsville, LA

I have a 1725 which is looking very good so far. I will be selfing it in a week or two as planned.

6/12/2010 3:36:00 AM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

The Dyberry Patch guy in my area selfed his 1725 and I used the pollen to cross with my 1689 Jutras. The 2 biggest pumpkins ever grown. The pumpkin is sitting around the 600 pound mark and still growing. It should have plenty of seeds for anyonge who wants to give the cross of the two heavy weights a try.

8/25/2010 4:37:02 PM

Northern California Foothills

Sounds like a great cross Ned. I'd like to give it a try next year.

8/25/2010 8:50:10 PM

Plainwell,Mi 49080

Ned
Any chance a 2nd year grower could get a seed or two?

8/25/2010 9:24:53 PM

Honesdale Pa USA

Can I get one for Rocky?

8/25/2010 10:20:29 PM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

None for Rocky. my email is nedsand@ptd.net if you are interested. I will post again after seed collection time.

8/26/2010 3:46:51 PM

Las Cruces NM

Brian is 100 percent, the concern with selfing is reduced heterosis but ... but ... but ... if you really want to know see:

http://www.plantbreeding.iastate.edu/pdf/icb98.pdf

8/31/2010 12:09:40 AM

Northern California Foothills

All ag's are the same except for mutations. How can you claim your getting hybrid vigor when crossing two plants that are genetically the same?

8/31/2010 9:00:21 PM

Bristol,RI,USA.

Cucurbits if we are all humans are we all the same? ag are not all the same, this is why we cross for differnt traits. there are still crosses that will produce hibrid vigor

9/17/2010 2:48:22 PM

Northern California Foothills

The variety atlantic giant is an open pollinated variety meaning it will come true to seed. Humans are descended from a group of several hundred people so there is still genetic variation.

9/17/2010 9:30:42 PM

Long Island,New York

How did those several hundred people get there? Parallel genetic mutations of 100 people??? Who counted them? Most of my friends are open polinated.

9/18/2010 6:24:39 AM

Milton, Vermont

OK, total newbie here, both to this forum and big pumpkins in general. I've got one going that I'm thinking is going to break 400 but that is more by accident than anything else.

So forgiving my innocence, what do the names and numbers I see connected with seeds mean?. How does one find those pedigreed seeds to try himself?

9/30/2010 4:34:04 PM

East Jordan, MI

The first number is the weight of the pumpkin that the seed came from. The name is the last name of who grew it. The last number is the year.

You can go to the seed exchange thread and there will be people offering their seeds (more later after all of the weigh-offs are completed). You can get their mailing address and send a self addressed stamped bubble envelope to them and they will send you some seeds.

There will be seed auctions later on to get some really high demand seeds.
Find a club or grower in your area and they will most likely give you some great seeds. Search for club sites on Internet, they generally have seeds for sale. Two I belong to are http://www.ovgpg.com has closed for the 2010 season but will be back up with this years seeds soon. http://www.sogpg.com/seedsaleNEW.asp still has some for sale.

Welcome to the madness!

9/30/2010 10:04:19 PM