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Joliet, IL

i figured why not bring up the same old debate and see what others have to say about their experiences and thoughts.
how much are "heavier-to-the chart" pumpkins attributed to the grower's practices and methods and how much is genetic?

my experience this year was to grow a seed from a 873 lb 2009 pumpkin that went 24% heavy and was pollinated by a plant last year that produced a 752 pumpkin that went 24% heavy. the result was my 1209 shenoha 2010 off the 873 naylor 2009 went 20% heavy. this pumpkin was grown in the same spot (honey hole spot) that produced 13% light last year. the difference in the textures, density, and thickness in flesh between the 2 were very different. those different characteristics of flesh i feel are genetic based on my results and what i have seen.

i am not sure if steve's 1286.5 daletas 2010 pollinator, the 991 urena, was the same 991 that grew his 1394 daletas 2010, but if it was and it produced good and plentiful seeds...then look out. if his 991 was the same pollinator, then the 1286.5 (1288 x 991) went 22.3% heavy and was pollinated by the 991 urena plant that produced the 1394 that went 23.4% heavy. wow. for those growing huge shell genetics next year, the 1286.5 might be a an excellent choice of a pollinator. a 424" ott pumpkin at 20% heavy equals 1910 lbs. maybe the 1725 harp x the 1286.5 daletas for a monster big x monster heavy cross could be very interesting to try.

10/30/2010 7:36:15 AM

Rhode Island

HI JEFF

I REALLY THINK YOU NEED THREE THINGS. ID CALL THEM "THE BIG THREE"

1. SOIL VITALITY AND HEALTH THROUGH OUT THE YEAR --- THE BEST SEED WITH OVER THE CHART GENETICS MEANS LITTLE MOST TIMES IF THE SOIL IS NOT AT A HIGH -BALANCED LEVEL AND THE PLANT IS NOT HEALTHY.
2. SEED --- IF YOU CONTINUE TO PLANT AND CROSS SEEDS FROM PUMPKINS THAT HAVE A HISTORY OF OVER THE CHART RESULTS ? YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTINUE THE TREND IN THE OFFSPRING.
3. WEATHER --- NUMBERS 1 AND 2 WONT MATTER AS MUCH IF THE WEATHER DOES NOT COOPERATE.

WE NEED ALL THREE WORKING TOGETHER FOR MAXIMUM RESULTS

PAP

10/30/2010 8:18:09 AM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Jeff,
I firmly believe a grower can make a difference in a fruit going heavy by developing soil vitality (like pap says) and using certain techniques along with the help of mother nature.
Genetically I have seen some very dense fleshed fruit (1423 Wallace was one!) that can be part of a seed/plant selection.
My answer to your question IMO is if you have the same seed in the same patch in the same soil a grower can influence the % heavy to the chart 100% of the time if they treat the plants differently (mostly by watering differently). Even if they are watered the same and use the same vine patterns, I believe there are still ways to influence "heavy" outcomes most of the time.
State this differently and one can see how a grower influences "heavy"....... "Can a grower's practices be attributed to a pumpkin going "light" to the charts?"
Of course! I've done it when I pick early or quit watering in September when I'm leery of splitting my 'last' fruit or not fertilizing the fruit because it's not a 'keeper'.
John

10/30/2010 2:31:51 PM

canal winchester ohio

I think the largest factor is soil, with genetics being a close second. I know in my area there are growers who's fruit either generally go heavy or light no matter what the seed.
That's why most newer growers make the mistake of going after special seeds or fertilizers first & not fixing their soil first. You can't control temps,sun & water 100% but you can control how your soil is 100% so that's why I would check the soil tests & addmendments of the growers who's fruit generally go heavy before I concentrated on anything else.

11/2/2010 4:28:13 PM

Eugene,OR

I think that genetics is king.
Some seeds grown in the same patch with others will consistently go heavy comparatively, and others will regularly go lighter. I think that the other factors can influence HOW heavy a fruit will go, but you've got to have the genetics to make it possible.

11/3/2010 9:57:09 PM