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Eastern Pennsylvania

We seem to be pretty damn good at producing nice orange pumpkins in the 800-1100 pound range, plus a few stand out specimens. We need to take it to the next level- incorporate some big seed genes into the orange varieties.

Selection here is critical. Even the biggest and for lack of a better term ugliest pumpkins produce some real gems here and there. These are the seeds which must be selected, with the orange genes proven to be present and the addition of some big heavy lineage.

The odds are definitely not good for producing an orange pumpkin from the random big and pretty seed however you may get lucky and never the less get an exceptional cross with your alreay mega-orange seed. And if the random big and pretty seed pays off for you.. gold mine.

12/31/2010 12:18:09 AM

Frankfort Ohio

i think we need to start looking at some of the selfed seeds that throw orange like brooks 1385 he grew this year i think he selfed another one on that plant and i think that john and james selfed one on their 991 plant if these keep their orange in their offspring they could help alot in the future of big and orange

12/31/2010 1:50:15 AM

Bristol R.I. USA

Charlie Lieber also selfed a 1161 and got a shiny orange pumpkin. It was 1610 and big and orange. I'm not sure on the selfed seeds but It's worth checking out. Guys like Norm Gansert have a goal of producing big orange pumpkins that are appealing the the eye and weigh big and heavy. Just imagine if Norm decided to grow just for size. I like the guys who wanna keep the hobby orange and big after all most pumpkins are big heavy and ugly. as growers we tend to only want heavy without the beauty. This year I'm gonna try to expand the patch and allow one orange pumpkin to grow.

12/31/2010 9:22:07 AM

East Jordan, MI

The 1375 Liggett has thrown some big orange pumpkins. One of them was the physically largest one ever grown (to my knowledge)....the 1636 was 445 OTT (which is 1827 on the chart) and was growing right up until a few days before harvest (111 days old). It really hasn't been grown that much from what I can find. Seems like a pretty good starting place to me.

12/31/2010 9:23:07 AM

Des Moines, Iowa

1348 Hester

12/31/2010 9:26:15 AM

Coventry R.I.

I Say ,,, Charlie,s 1161 is perfect for both Worlds,, Big and Orange
Norm,s 1131 was great lookin also.

12/31/2010 9:55:19 AM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Jim, I think John Vincent has done what you're talking about twice. His 993 was pollinated by a 998 Pukos, a fine looking specimen that produced Joe's 1689. John's 1059 took it a step further. Using a 904 Stelts as a pollinator, another beauty that produced a 1600 + pumpkin, the 993 and 1059 are IMO two of the best seeds to take it to the next level.

12/31/2010 10:54:21 AM

Western PA

After seeing this years results I believe the 1421 Stelts could be the seed or be the seed to cross with to take orange pumpkin growing to the crown jewel of the sport a nice orange world champion pumpkin!

I have not seen all pics of the 1421 but I have seen a lot and they all have seem to gone orange, some darker then others but non-the-less orange. Check out the top 3 offspring of the 1421 this year:
1663 Zoellner
1634 Werner
1506 Hopkins

This seed is doing things with orange no orther seed has done. I seen the 1663 and 1634 in person and as a orange grower I was left in ahhh... at the size and orange of those fruit. not to mention this seed has to be ranked as one of the top producing seeds in the world this year, first year out with atlease a dozen over 1,000.

The 1544 Revier Is also one of the top producing seeds of 2010, first year out as well with about a dozen over a 1,000 and has tended to throw orange as well. Check out the 1332 Wolf 2010.

12/31/2010 11:51:56 AM

Alabama

I like the looks of the 513 Vincent 10 (1059 Vincent/McGill X 1161 Rodonis)

12/31/2010 1:59:04 PM

Johnston, R.I.

The 1059 produces real nice pumpkins..I cant wait to see what this years crosses bring to the scale next season.......

12/31/2010 2:05:20 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

I'm glad everyone seems to have the same thoughts I have when it comes to big orange. I definitely agree the 1421.5 is the best bet out there for a really big orange one. Sooner or later it's going to pop something that resembles the 1662 and go real heavy. If that fortunate grower happens to use an orange pollinator it would be magic. And the 1161 definitely has the orange present in it's genome.

A couple notes the 977 Bosworth from the 1385 was not selfed it was crossed with the 1725 Harp and has massive potential. Brooks did tell me that he was selfing another on that plant once he saw the color coming from the 977. I think he got it to about 40-50 days before the end. I'm not sure about the seeds though. Without doubt, the 1059 Vincent-McGill is the #1 seed out there right now that is capable of going both big and orange without further modification to it's genome.

There was no way my radar was going to miss the 1332 Wolf. There were very few seeds from that pumpkin that's why you don't see them in any auctions except the NY growers. But I have two of them and it will be my main pollinator for this year's projects. I think the 1332 pollen put into the 921.5 Rosa which is a selfed 923 Gerhardt is going to be a knockout orange cross.

12/31/2010 5:19:43 PM

Clayton, Ohio, USA

I'm planning to cross my 1060 Zoellner 10 Est(879 Zoellner x 1421 Stelts) with the 1610 Lieber 10.

12/31/2010 6:04:20 PM

Frankfort Ohio

i hope to cross the 1610 with the 1544 revier and 1662 stelts

12/31/2010 6:06:01 PM

Clayton, Ohio, USA

I also like the 1441 Gansert 10, 1445 Michaud 10, 1493 Michaud 10 to add size to some dominant orange lines.

12/31/2010 6:17:30 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

I am hoping to do 1421 Stelts x 1059 Vincent/McGill in 2011.

This year I did 993.2 Vincent/McGill x 1370 Rose and got my 808 Dixon. Hope to grow that one too!!

12/31/2010 6:53:56 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Glenn, it's none of my business but a 1059 x 1421 could be a dandy. In both the 993 and 1059 John used a pretty orange producing female pollinated with a proven giant maker that also had the potential to go orange. I don't know if it makes a difference to have the stronger orange genetics on the female side but it worked in John's case.

12/31/2010 7:15:04 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Right you are Andy...I would do the cross both ways like I did this year with the 993.2 x 1370 Rose and reverse.

12/31/2010 7:18:18 PM

Willamette Valley, Oregon

932.5 Holub 2010 (1059.6 Vincent-McGill x 1421 Stelts[1307])

Check it out on AGGC. Pollinator wasn't orange though.

1/1/2011 1:11:39 PM

Pinetops,n.c.

i think its just a matter of time till the orange growers hit the jackpot with a monster.there are some really nice looking orange crosses that have some real big potential.i know of several crosses that will be made from seeds that already have both big and orange in them.some of the fruits from these could be interesting, not to mention what may be grown fromtheir seeds in 2012.so just wait, you might need your sunglasses at your next weighoff to watch them bend the scales.better look out for that guy from r.i., he knows a thing or two about big and orange.

1/1/2011 2:11:50 PM

South Hero, VT

I also believe the new orange giants over 1600 lbs are just the beginning. I'm toying with the idea of crossing a 1250.5 Kline with a 1662.5 Stelts, or selfing the Stelts.

The 1674.5 Connolly has potential for orange, but I'm concerned about the Wallace genetics(white), which could influence color for at least a couple(?) of years.

1/1/2011 3:45:51 PM

Mass

How about the 1332 Wolf with the 1445 Michaud? Saw both in person.

1/1/2011 4:19:52 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Thanks Scott, I ckecked out both on the AGGC...very nice!! Howard Dill winner too!!

1/1/2011 6:14:16 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

I think if we want to save the orange, we need to give them and grow them, not sell them and save them, lol. These days, I'm not sure who to ask in our new reality of selling and auctioning seeds. To get the Gerhardt and Rosa seeds, I just joined the Mid-Atlantic group, check is in the mail today.

I'm going with five plants next year, and four of them will be devoted to the best true-orange seeds I can round up.

1/3/2011 11:12:17 AM

Saegertown Pa.

My 1634 might be a good one for the orange color your looking for, the 1634 was a 1421.5 Stelts and the male was a 1236 Harp that grew my 1461. I just posted a picture of the 1634 and 1461.

1/3/2011 1:41:33 PM

South Hero, VT

Quinn, the PGPGA auction 1/9/11 has both of those seeds in a lot. Are they available for paid members as part of the seed giveaway as well?

I love orange, and the 1634 and 1461 are definitely ORANGE. I would like to cross both of them with the 1662.5 Stelts, another big orange beauty.

1/3/2011 8:39:56 PM

Saegertown Pa.

Steve there in the OVGPG seed sale, just go to ovgpg.com

1/4/2011 4:52:51 AM

South Hero, VT

Thank you, Mr. Quinn. There's nothing like spending my tax refund before I get it. lol

1/4/2011 6:35:18 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Oneck, very curious now as to value of old vs. new?? Is a 670 Daigle, or 603.5 Muller equal to a 1610 Lieber!!?? Understand, this is just a question? Peace, Wayne

1/4/2011 6:41:33 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

wayne, vvalue is in the eye of the beholder. to the true orange enthisiast the 1610 is a big pumpkin which is orange but surely you see a difference in the skin texture and sheen compared to that of a 603.5 muller. i dont wish to insult anyone and the 1610 will do well, but not for the same reasons that the 670 772 and 603.5 have done well.

1/6/2011 12:42:25 PM

Ohio

I did self another pumpkin off that 1385 plant but it ended up getting to cold and it stopped growing at day 40ish, I did let it sit on the vine covered up for another 20 days after that hoping that would help to mature the seeds if there was anything left in that plant for growing, but when I opened that pumpkin up the seeds where just starting to grow inside the pumpkin , but it was to late the seed shells was all empty.

Ya never know though, the 1385 does throw a few oranges pumpkins out there, and when it does they sure are pretty, the 1725 has that same small chance as well, after all it is a 1385 x self, so it does have that small percentage of throwing a orange beuty also,
if your growing a 1725 next year keep a eye on it for the orange, and if you havnt selfed it, try to grow another pumpkin off that same plant as quick as you can and self it, maybe you can get lucky enough for it to produce seeds before it gets to cold in the season.

1/6/2011 2:22:15 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Wow, Brooks, thanks for the info!!!
Peace, Wayne
PS...lookin for a 1610 Lieber!!! LOL

1/7/2011 12:18:04 AM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Interesting thread! Jim(Orangeneck)....I think you should be commended for your dedication to orange genetics. You've made some very nice crosses in this regard. I'm planning on growing the 1610 Lieber this year. Hopefully it will be useful in breeding seeds that can take orange weights to a new level. That being said, I don't know yet what I want to cross the 1610 with. Do I go with proven consistant orange producing seeds(such as 603.5, 670, 772, etc), or something like the 1634 Werner that has great size genetics, and may go quite orange? I do have a 1370 Rose, which can go quite orange, or may go pale......decisions, decisions, decisions. I'm open to suggestions.

1/7/2011 10:28:31 PM

Dillsburg, PA

Well Doug my approach is this- I'm certainly not going to be breaking any records so I go with orange. But that is just me- I'd rather have a smaller pretty pumpkin than a big ugly pumpkin. With that said I have some pretty good seeds this year and Jim's 923 is going to get a lot of attention in my patch. That seed has been proven and I'm excited about growing it again. As far as pollinators go- I'm trying to get a hold of a 921 Rosa. Very dark orange pumpkin that I'm looking to cross with my other seeds.

1/8/2011 7:26:20 AM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Jeff, if you join the MAGPG, for just $15, you will get a 921.5 Rosa in you membership seed pack.

1/8/2011 10:32:38 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Doug thanks for the kind words!

Jeff, I am surprised that you haven't joined the MAGPG already. The membership seed drive includes the 921.5 Rosa, and we are paying $150.00 to the biggest Howard Dill winner grown from the 921.5. We are that sure that it will produce. Shoot me an email when you get a chance.

1/9/2011 6:28:59 PM

Dorval,Quebec

I second Doug and really enjoy this kind of post.

1/9/2011 8:03:29 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

I believe the key to moving forward is keeping the orange beauties weighing on or above chart. This is why I continue to select orange pollinators that tend to produce on or above chart pumpkins.

It will be interesting to see what my next generation seed brings, the 513 Vincent 10 (1059 x 1161). I am thinking of bringing back in one of the older seeds i.e. 603 muller, however I may grow out and use for a pollinator my 804 from a few years ago (670 Dagle x 1180 Daletas). Still thinking about it, but the 513 is going in the patch for sure. (Picture on my diary)

1/9/2011 9:13:41 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

John I recall that you were looking for a 603.5. If you are going to put the 603.5 into the 1059 I might be persuaded to trade you one. Email me and we can toss it around a bit.

1/10/2011 1:07:09 PM

South Hero, VT

Jim, if John Vincent doesn't need the 603.5 Muller, John Young in Vermont is looking for one: http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=1&p=372794

1/10/2011 2:53:27 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

I really like the idea of a secondary fruit strategy for plants that are growing a really nice orange pumpkin.

The idea that if one has made a cross, and the female fruit turns into a really nice orange, then selfing a second fruit on a side vine further from the primary in hoped of getting homogenous seeds with a higher% chance of orange in future years.

1/20/2011 11:03:24 AM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

785 Pukos 09 ( 1102 Pukos x 1161 Rodonis )
1102 Pukos was a beautiful pumpkin, pollinated by a 1161 Rodonis. 1102= 1159 Richards x 998 Pukos.

2/7/2011 9:57:59 PM