From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Germany (Bavaria)

If you go back in the hierarchy trees of real orange producers (846 Calai,772 Poirier,670 Daigle, 603.5 Muller only to name some) you will find in all crosses at least two anchestors: 801.5 Stelts and 810 Dill.
So if you would like to grow real orange ones the conclusion must be: plant a cross between theese two seeds, am I correct?
So I did some research and found out that there is only one 801.5 Stelts x 810 Dill cross out there at all: the 1036 Companion 03. This seed was not very often planted perhaps due to low seed count? Dan Bowles and George Webster planted it once but no progeny listed anyway.
Take the reverse cross: 810 Dill x 801.5 Stelts. I only found three crosses: 1048.5 Companion, 965 Northrup and
625 Daigle.
I`m just wondering why theese crosses do not turn out to be the most important orange producers at all!! Please help me out by that!

If you could get your hands on one of theese four seeds, what would you cross in? 1610 Lieber or even a 1421 Stelts to get some heavy genes in it?

Just my thoughts about orange genetics...

Raimund

1/8/2011 5:05:07 PM

Dorval,Quebec

For an offspring of the 364 Webster,look in PA Punkin Pharmer 06 diary,entry 10.Pollen from that plant(364) produced Kevin's 746 Snyder that has grown some nice orange ones...

1/9/2011 12:21:14 AM

Cincinnati,OH

The 810 and 801 were crossed with the 1016 and 1230 Daletas
quite a few times to add size.

1/9/2011 11:31:47 AM

Germany (Bavaria)

Mike, I know both 364 Webster and 746 Snyder. If you go back in hierarchy trees you will again find the 810 Dill and 801.5 Stelts.
Ron, same here. 1230 and 1016 were grown on one plant: the 705 Stelts (801.5 Stelts x 974 Mettler). So it was the 974 Mettler and 876.5 Lloyd (pollinator of 846 Calai) to add size in orange genetics???

To tie in with the post "The future of orange pumpkins":
Why not growing a 810 x 801.5 cross or reverse and pollinate lets say a 1161,1385,1421,1662... to create a new generation of orange genetics?

1/9/2011 3:05:53 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Raimund,

I believe that is exactly how we are going to get to the next greneration of big-n-orange, by pollinating pure orange with seeds that often grow very large pumpkins that could be easily influenced to grow bright orange pumpkins such as the 1161, 1421, etc., hopefully bigger-n-orange is in the future.

Some growers have been doing this with success, John Vincent, for example.

This season I will be doing a few (pure orange x HUGE) crosses hopefully and growing a few seeds that have that same type of cross.

1/9/2011 4:10:07 PM

Cincinnati,OH

Ok Raimund do a 1048 Companion x 1634 Werner cross.

1/9/2011 4:21:30 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

I admit while auctioning the 1048 Companion off from my own stash I wondered to myself why I didn't grow that seed. I had a 1036 also and gave it to my friend Jeff I'm not sure if he ever planted it though.

That cross: the 801.5 x 810, is the ultimate for orange. I was always curious why Kevin Companion himself didn't grow out either of those crosses. Maybe he did and they somehow turned out to be duds, and he didn't want to report the outcome?

But that was a few years ago. Just like big weight pumpkins the orange lines are being re-enforced. To the orange enthusiest the even the 801.5 and the 810 show some variation in their ability to throw good orange. why not go with a more modernized seed, which came from an orange pumpkin, which came from another orange pumpkin, which came from something that probably had the 801.5 Stelts in it to begin with. It is always a roll of the dice so to speak, but when you grow a seed from a pumpkin with the greatest number of positive orange offspring in its history, the odds maybe go from 1:3 orange to 3:1. Note: ratios are just for example not based on any fact or data.

Like growing a big seed: the seed that grew the biggun had monster size genes, but do all the seeds from that pumpkin that grew the biggun have that monster gene? Who knows but by growing a seed from the biggun offspring itseld at least gives the piece of mind that somewhere in that genetics scramble the potential is there to hit a big one.

Hope that made sense GO ORANGE!

1/9/2011 7:00:20 PM

Dorval,Quebec

After reading Jim's post,something clicked(for a change) and I checked out my Dill premium seed printouts dating back a bit.There is an 827 Companion 04 listed,1048x735,2005 list,that might not be on the AGGC(I can only see a few years back).Kevin also had a 1042,900,851,740 and 710# that year.

1/9/2011 7:58:58 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Thanks Mike I would love to see a pic of that 827 Companion!

1/9/2011 8:57:34 PM

Netherlands

Raimund, do you know if anyone grew this Bavarian seed?

347 Niederhofer 08 (772 Poirier x 919 Richards)

1/10/2011 4:22:04 AM

Germany (Bavaria)

Jim and Kevin, thanks for your appraisals. I just wrote an email to Kevin C. to get some light in this story about his 1036.

Brad I planted the 347 Niederhofer once in my genetical patch, but unfortunately it was killed by voles early in the season. It was a healthy plant with ornage vines! This cross has potential!

1/10/2011 4:09:10 PM

Rochester, MN

I believe I have a 810 x 801 cross(or opposite) from a Dennis Daigle...never did plant it...if interested send me an email..it would be free.
dbhaskaran@aol.com
David Bhaskaran
Rochester, MN

1/11/2011 1:08:08 AM

Rochester, MN

Ok...someone has already asked for it...I'll check my orange genetics grab bag also...glad to see people interested in Orange! Also have a 772 Poirer x 1290 Poirer Cross..that I grew a few years back...lots of those...or was it a 1290 x 772? Both pumpkins split and never made it to market...one around 869 lbs.

1/11/2011 8:00:26 AM

The 801.5, like many AG's has some undesirable traits. Many seeds with great potential have not been given enough planting to uncover true potential. Alan Reynolds did the 801.5 Stelts x 810 Dill along with 567.4 Wallce x 801.5. How many of those got planted? The 850 Wallace which is 567.4 Wallace x 801.5 Stelts grew the 604 Jutras, mother to 846 Jutras. 758 Wallace 846 Calai x 705 Stelts only grown once that I know of and grew a pretty pumpkin. 627 Hampton. A very interesting line is the 801.5> 846 Calai> 1260 Weir> 1370 Rose> 1273 Howard x 1054 Howard which is interesting.. The 1370 Rose may represent the best of the 801.5,846 and 1260. The 904 Stelts male was the 1068 Wallace... 904 was male for the 1059 Vincent-McGill eh em> 1131 Gansert. The Dills have made many many great crosses that have seen little soil. look at the 730 Dill.

1/11/2011 9:07:12 AM