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Nottingham, UK

I understand that the genetics of a pollinator are expressed in the next generation but does the pollinator contribute to the way in that the pumpkin it has pollinated grows? Just wondering if selfing triggers something differernt in growth.

I ask in relation to pumpkins like the 1610 Lieber (1161 Rodonis x self).

Planning to self an 852 Myers (746 Snyder x 1059 VMG) and cross with a 1304 Sperry (1610 Lieber x 1161 Rodonis) and was just wondering if selfing had any contribution to plant vigour.

I fear not as there are so many other factors and timings but thought I would ask all the same.

Thanks

3/7/2012 10:28:08 AM

Colorado

The common sentiment is no differnce on growth.I'm not totally sold on that.

3/7/2012 12:40:38 PM

British Columbia, Canada

I selfed a 900 Sandvik which grew my 222, I then selfed the 222 which then grew my 409.

The 222 was a dark orange color, the 409 was ghost white. The plant that grew my 409 had very vigorous plant growth.

I also noticed the 222 plant had alot of weird mutations. Such as leafs growing from the ends of tendrils.

3/7/2012 2:06:37 PM

Piqua, Ohio

when selfing you get good and bad traits but if you self them for 5 years using 2 different seeds then cross them together you'll get a hybrid vigor this is usually done in farming for hybrid seeds. if your pumpkin plant produces 1200 and you self it over and over the weight may go down over the years. the best way to know is to plant 5 of the same seeds keep seeds from the one with traits you're looking for size, color, disease resistance,..etc. then grow 5 of those seeds and repeat a few years, and you can know what your seeds will produce. Self pollination I recommend if you like the characteristics of the fruit the seeds are out of. I could go on for hours but I'll stop now, I'm no expert just a small town farm boy but have been researching AG genetics since I started growing 6 years ago.

3/7/2012 2:52:32 PM

I agree with cojoe. Some pumpkins on pumpkinlink seem to be better pollinators than others. Some seem to pollinate bigger than they grow themselves. If there is no effect in the first generation, then could somebody explain this? I'll use the 1421 checkon and 1544 revier as an example.
Thanks

3/7/2012 3:45:12 PM

Deer Park, WI

Pollination/fertilization is essential to initiate the growth of the female fruit, however the pollen will not have effect on the outcome of that pumpkin beyond that.

Pollen will influence the development of seeds inside that pumpkin. Marriage between a pollen grain and an embryo (egg) is necessary for the development of the seeds inside the pumpkin.

Now, when a pollen grain joins with an embryo to create what eventually becomes a seed, those developing seeds release hormones that signal for water/sugar/nutrients to be drawn into the pumpkin. This is partially what drives the "sink" that allows fruit to grow grow grow.

Will a pollen grain from a 1544 have a different effect on this process than one from the 1421? Not to anyone's knowledge. As far as we know, the genes contained in that pollen do not influence the hormonal signals generated by the seeds.

In the words of Yoda, much to learn we have.

3/7/2012 9:02:49 PM

Minnesota

Thanks Amelio, I am trying to accelerate you not brake you, you seem to have many sticking points. I will have all the 898Knauss I need after this year. I will be looking for a world record seed or something with great proven genetics to pollinate next year.

3/7/2012 11:36:06 PM

Nottingham, UK

Nicely put Joze and thanks for everyones input

I guess I could have misinterpreted comments along the lines of '1725' is a good pollinator. They could have been referring to the subsequent seed being sown.

3/8/2012 9:09:01 AM

President - GPC

JoZe,

What about affects of deformed lobeZ on pumpkin symmetry?

3/8/2012 9:52:03 AM

Joze
Is there any work being done to determine what causes the hormonal signal and/or to determine whether the pollinating plant has influence on growth or looks not just on future generations? Any ideas of why some plants seem to be better sires than dams?

3/8/2012 12:14:32 PM

Deer Park, WI

@ amelio I appreciate the moderator's advice but the discussion of hormones was relevant in my answer.

Wiz- deformed lobes is completely open to speculation. This one is tricky. A I would ask is "are lobes somehow associated with the "rows" of seeds that develop internally?" Has anyone ever observed if a 4-lobe pumpkin has, roughly, 4 "rows" of seeds in the cavity?

I've often wondered if incomplete pollination has an impact on symmetry. I guess in there is a seeming contradiction to the original question- which comes down to semantics.

Spudder- im sure there's research out there that describes the processes above, i havent spent the time to dig deep into this. Im not sure why some plants are better on one side of the gender coin...I would argue, however, that we do not have a legitimate way to measure if a plant is better as a male or female. We have some anecdotal observations but these are far from scientific and may actually not have significance.

3/8/2012 7:37:45 PM

Nottingham, UK

I think pumpkin genetics realy do deserve some scientific studies but who has the time, space and money to dedicate to controlled studies using homogenous conditions?

Maybe one day we might all play our part in a coordinated study.

3/9/2012 5:18:05 AM

Littleton, Colorado

Joze--I have believed that there is a direct correlation between rows of seeds in a pumpkin, and # of lobes of the flower that became that pumpkin. I was puzzled a bit last fall when I cut into my 751 which had been a 6 lobed flower. It had 5 rows of seeds instead of 6. I think that 6th lobe I had counted might have been an incomplete lobe. I have observed that pumpkins with a greater # of lobes generally have the potential of having more seeds. The 910 I grew in 2007 was a 6 lobed one & had just under 900 good seeds! On the other hand, I'll bet Chris Stevens & Don Young could argue that no matter how many lobes a fruit has, it's no guarantee of a good seed count!

3/9/2012 11:50:24 PM

Kaukauna, Wisconsin

The last four world record long gourds came from a selfed seed. This years record is also selfed.

3/15/2012 10:35:00 PM

Nebraska

test

1/29/2014 9:25:38 AM