From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Hinckley MN

For those growers that have had pumpkins with low seed counts, have their been only a few seeds or have there been only a few mature seeds with lots of immature ones? Did those same fruit continue to add weight late into September and October? I am wondering if it is possible that the fruit may have needed another 20 days of growth to mature those seeds.

3/17/2012 11:37:31 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

I would seriously doubt it Ben. I had a fruit two years ago estimated at 300 pounds on day 30 that just flat quit growing. I left it on the vine another week and retrieved scads of well-developed seeds.

3/17/2012 3:27:48 PM

Piqua, Ohio

I think it starts at pollination, every grain of pollen from the male makes a seed, try using more males when pollinating

3/17/2012 8:17:43 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

It also depends on the heat and humidity...viability of pollen..Only takes a few pollen to actually pollinate..and fertilize. Sort of like a seedless watermelon

3/17/2012 8:32:17 PM

Muddy Waters

pollination occurs best between 68 & 80 degrees.If you have low seed counts I think its a temperature pollen issue.

3/17/2012 11:25:34 PM

words in posts above
(i think)used many times
back 5 years ago(1662) it was 71 °low humidity used 3 males no seeds
of course pumpkin was putting on weight past sept and into oct

300 lber with seeds? whats that prove
are you guys out of touch

3/17/2012 11:57:55 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

So, Don...any ideas as to why no seeds in the 1662? Plant putting awl efforts into fruit growth? (I think) was only used twice, but inferred several other times!!!! LOL Would certainly like to read your thoughts!!!
melons, I am certain that I have read somewhere that a single male AG blossom contains several thousand viable grains of pollen!!! If timing is correct?
PS...Don, nice outfit & Feathers!!! LOL Just kiddin, buddy!!! Peace, Wayne

3/18/2012 12:24:34 AM

Tinykinville

you can pollenate fine at much lower temps then 68 degrees and get plenty of viable seeds.

3/18/2012 12:27:27 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

How do you figure that pollination is best between 68 -80 and it is a pollination temop issue?
I agree with Don and Joe.

3/18/2012 12:33:34 AM

The bottom of New Jersey

This brings me back to something I've been thinking (there's that word again, lol) about for a while now. How a plant's main purpose is to reproduce (like every living thing) and once that mission is accomplished it has basically done its job and doesn't need to grow any more. It makes intuitive sense to me that if a fruit has little or no mature seeds in it yet, it will continue to grow in an attempt to reach that goal of producing mature seeds. The question now is, what causes a fruit to have little or no mature seeds in it? If we can answer that question definitively we might find a way to keep the fruit growing longer (even though we may end up with seedless fruit). The seedless watermelon is an interesting thing to compare this to - as far as I know they are cross-bred to be that way genetically but they also don't get any larger than regular watermelons. Maybe there are genetic links that are causing some AGs to have no seeds in them but I honestly don't have the time to research that.

3/18/2012 7:20:33 AM

Goodwood, Ontario, Canada

I understand your logic. I'm not sure that the watermelon example works because at my local store the seedless watermelons are smaller than the ones with seeds.

But on the same line of thought, I've often wondered whether you should always have one additional pumpkin growing to the point of pollination. Tie the flower so it doesn't get pollinated.

3/18/2012 8:47:01 AM

Piqua, Ohio

I put I think because it's my opinion. I can give out info without I think, but I don't want to give out info that may be incorrect. I use extra males, I know one is plenty but when I have so many males I make sure I get it done as far as temps. I assumed everyone used a frozen water bottle and a fan. In ohio it gets pretty hot around pollination.

3/18/2012 9:06:02 AM

New York

The modern Atlantic Giant is the result of what is probably the longest and most extensive residential plant breeding project in history. If you have hundreds or thousands of crosses trickling down to, what, 50? seeds that are grown by most competition growers, I think it's natural that various random and unprecedented anomalies will show up. I would be very surprised if environment was a primary factor in producing seedless specimens... if I grow other C. maximas and they get pollinated poorly due to heat or lack of moisture, the fruit themselves show signs of malformation, not just the seeds. If I had to guess, I would say there isn't much that can be done about seedless fruit, other than to potentially start breeding away from the trait in the future. I kind of feel guilty submitting my two cents after so many heavy hitters and experts have commented on the subject, but that's just my opinion on the topic.

3/18/2012 5:17:25 PM

Taylorsville, California

LOL Don!

3/18/2012 9:39:40 PM

Muddy Waters

I have never seen a female flower fully open under 68 degrees in Michigan,So how could I pollinate it at a lower temp?

3/18/2012 10:12:56 PM

Muddy Waters

There are exceptions to every rule.Just sayin my opinion.i guess as long as I'm pushing Great White Tom P will be kickin my butt.Im good with that?lol

3/18/2012 10:38:59 PM

Anchorage Alaska

Mark, you would to just to have to go farther north..lol..

I don't recall pollinating any female flower above 60 degrees and my seed counts are between 100 and 500 generally.. I use every male thats ready for pollination
This may sound dumb but I think plants respond faster in cooler temps .. they think time is running short.. that they need to get going .. just a thought

3/18/2012 10:44:26 PM

Tinykinville

Mark i told you your 68 degrees was wrong nine months ago and yet here you go again. Then to make matters worse it is now a reason for low seed counts. There is enough misinformation being spread to newer growers please quit adding to it.

3/18/2012 10:51:54 PM

Minnesota

Years ago I was thinking about this topic and here is what I think. I think it depends on what hand you use to pollinate. I think right hand results in average to high seeds counts and left hand equals low side counts. If I remember right Don was recovering from a right wrist sprain at the end of June 2007 and Chris had right rotator cuff surgery early June of 2010.
Just remember you are still smiling if the scale reads over 1500 and there is low seed counts.

3/18/2012 11:10:31 PM

Muddy Waters

Hey PJ we all have our own ideas and we share them.I didnt make those #s up I learned that a 2002 Guelph seminar taught by a very educated man Nick Welty.I saw him Saturday at Canfield .I asked him if he remembered those #s and he did.We live in Michigan maybe those work only here.I have watched flowers open since 1996 I have never seen one open at 65 or less.Most of the growing #s are opinion not fact.They just raised the PH #s from high 6s to mid 7s so we would of argued about that also.Its 90% opinion 10% fact.I do know this I seem to be a crap magnet.I seem to get everybodys crap on these forums.I'm good with that,I can argue with a fence post! lol!

3/19/2012 7:54:05 AM

Muddy Waters

Ok Toms turn??

3/19/2012 7:55:17 AM

Breslau, Ontario, Canada

Interesting Amelio,
I was also told that it could be associated with nutrients. I believe some grape or watermelon farmers shift Magnesium or Manganese for seedless varieties, can't remember which one it is though.

3/19/2012 9:24:57 AM

Rhode Island

personally i just enjoy growing them. the bigger the better. seed counts? weather related ? pollon count at time of pollination ? im sure each could play a roll however,i concentrate on growin um, take whatever i get for seed counts.very rarely been disapointed either.

theres no world records for seed counts.if we get a lot we give um to everyone ,if its a small count? we still do our best to distribute to as many growers as possible.
time to start growing.

pap

3/19/2012 9:27:32 AM

Hinckley MN

So the consensus is it is pollination issues not those specific plants needed a longer growing season? It just struck me that several fruit that put weight on late in the season, grew % heavy fruit, also had alot of seeds that didn't fully develop. As inbred as top AG lines are, there is still alot of variation between plants. Some will mature their seeds and be all but done at 90 DAP. Others seem to keep going strong, but are limited by dwindling light and temperatures. I guess I should have avoided the low seed counts as that drew everyone away from what I was trying to get at. Do some of these fruit need another month of growing season?

3/19/2012 11:26:22 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Handyman, I dont know what your obsession with starting crap on this board, or in general is, but..I'll try to keep this mellow for Ken's sake.
Your misinformation in regards to just about every aspect of anything you speak about has absolutely nothing to do with you "pushing" Great white, it really has to do with the amount of new growers that might listen to the nonsense that spews from you and actually compromise their chances at a good season.
We try to give growers the best info possible regardless of what my business is, and what products I carry, just the fact that you mention great white shows that you have no credibility so you back yourself into a corner and start slinging jabs.
As long as you feel confident in the products that you choose, you shouldn't feel threatened by anyone else.
Obviously you see that everyone is discrediting your statements mark, I guess they must have a problem with you pushing great White too?
At least one group got tired of you Mark, you should take that as a hint, your insanities get old fast. Grow up.
oh, and have a great season.

3/19/2012 11:50:05 AM

Muddy Waters

Afraid to speak I might get my ears boxed!lol

3/19/2012 11:50:10 AM

Colorado

Theres definately a genetic component.Ive had two plants in the past that produced fruit with no viable seeds. Both plants had two fruit and all four fruit were seedless. One plant had fruit with empty seed shells the other hadnt any seeds(they were still tiny white size) I cant remember if I pollinated switching hands but I do know they were pollinated a week apart with different males and the fruit were Identical seedwise when I opened them up.

3/19/2012 11:53:20 AM

Muddy Waters

Tom Your afraid of a little competition.We will see who weighs in the bigger Kin.Would you like to put your money where your mouth is?I have 500$ says I grow a bigger Kin then you this year.

3/19/2012 2:11:37 PM

Muddy Waters

Oh & have a great season,just not as great as mine!LOL

3/19/2012 2:12:44 PM

Muddy Waters

I didnt start no crap on here.You did Keep the facts straight Tom, I simply said what I thought without attacking anyone.You attacked me you big bullie!lol

3/19/2012 2:45:52 PM

Minnesota

Then don't you worry about the seeds rotting if left in the pumpkins to long?

3/19/2012 2:46:01 PM

Muddy Waters

Im sorry You need to keep the facts Straight.

3/19/2012 2:47:31 PM

Muddy Waters

Is 2 a group???

3/19/2012 2:56:50 PM

Muddy Waters

I will never grow up its not in the cards!lol

3/19/2012 2:57:54 PM

Muddy Waters

This is where you started it Tom."How do you figure that pollination is best between 68 -80 and it is a pollination temop issue"?

3/19/2012 4:29:29 PM

Muddy Waters

Why do you have to be right all the time Tom??

3/19/2012 4:30:25 PM

Muddy Waters

http://www.donnan.com/vegetable_garden.htm

3/19/2012 4:44:30 PM

Muddy Waters

http://pumpkinnook.com/howto/pollenfaq.htm

3/19/2012 4:58:09 PM

Muddy Waters

Who you calling Obsessed Tom! LOL!!!

3/19/2012 4:59:08 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Handyman, you are calling me out....lmao...thanks for proving my point.....hahahahahhaha......my freakin sides hurt.......bwa hahahahahahhaha!.....wheeeeeewww....I needed that.

3/19/2012 5:48:29 PM

Cheshire,Ma

:)

3/19/2012 6:42:32 PM

Marion, Wisconsin

Could someone explain the theory behind having a pH around 7.5 instead of 6.5. Feel free to start a new thread. I don't want to Hijack this one. Thanks. Matt

3/19/2012 9:08:41 PM

Marion, Wisconsin

Just noticed the thread in a different board. Thanks.

3/19/2012 9:13:25 PM

Muddy Waters

Dont let Toms little antics fool you.He is bent out of shape because Chris Kent & I did not answer his E-mails last June.He wanted to sponsor the GWG.We were buzy in our patchs and mistakenly blew him off.Hind site being 20/20 is was for the better as his little 200 package does not compare to what Great White has done for the GWG.Tom wants to monopolize the pumpkin community.Sorry Tom this is America,you will have competition it will be good for all of us the more companys that compete for our business,will be more money for all of us,even you Tom will make more money as the community grows as a result of competition.Sorry you vision is limited as is your character a smart business man would not be on here attacking people.

3/19/2012 9:38:43 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

No matter if this conversation is tongue in check in a funny way or maybe a more serious dispute, imagine what a new visitor to this site would think. As a veteran member of this site I honestly don't know if this is a fight or a joke. Enough is enough.

3/19/2012 9:48:34 PM

Muddy Waters

Thats what I'm saying why is Tom setting such a bad example?

3/19/2012 9:50:48 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Mark, are you crazy? Upset to sponsor you? I am happy to get rid of you, pretty much as happy as the GWG was happy to get rid of you. I can understand your resentment after having the group that you created and tried unsuccessfully to run, taken right out from under your feet. Maybe if you put your brain in motion before you put your mouth in gear, you would have an ounce of credibility.
It is America, but I dont understand one thing, how can I be unhappy about you selling something when you arent even involved with the watermelon group, do they even know that you are representing them after you got tossed aside like they were scraping crap off their shoes?
Mark, I didnt know that you were so concerned with me making money? That is very kind of you.
I really dont think I want to monopolize anything, on the contrary, I enjoy helping growers.
I did contact you early on offering a prize package, I didnt know that you looked at gifts as being too small for the members that you were supposed to be looking out for, it reminds me of the post when you laughed at growers with smaller fruit....can you guess why you arent in charge any more?
You crack me up, you are giving me advice on running a business when you couldnt even run a club?...lol
Thanks Mark, Two laughs in one day is more than I can take.
Keep up the good work, we need some laughs, its almost planting time.
If you would like to continue this, man up and call me, or...keep on showing everyone just how ignorant you are.

3/19/2012 9:55:38 PM

Muddy Waters

Get rid of me? You never had me.Tom Great white is better then anything you sell I will prove it this summer.Your really low & showing it to the World right now.

3/19/2012 10:06:34 PM

Muddy Waters

I called you three times you dont answer

3/19/2012 10:07:03 PM

Muddy Waters

Wow who would buy from this guy?? Wow!

3/19/2012 10:08:01 PM

Torrance, Ca.

He didn't pick up the phone because he was helping another grower get a new personal best!


Tom's a good man!

3/19/2012 10:23:57 PM

Rapid City, SD

thinking here..........but not 100% sure as i didn't keep track of morning temps.........but maybe one year we polinated when temps were over 65 but i know there have been many times i polinated with temps in the low 50's......had to use a hair dryer to get female and male flowers to open before i went to work at 5 am in the morning and have very few unsuccessful polinations........and our seed counts for the record........never been under 800 and 2 years ago over 1000 seeds

3/19/2012 10:24:25 PM

Muddy Waters

A good man would not stoop this low

3/19/2012 10:28:49 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Mark, you crack me up, at least a few successful growers have disproved your trumped up theory, you then lash out at me and now this has become about me, my company and now the type of mycorrhiza I sell....lol
Everytime someone proves you wrong you go to the depths of a conversation looking for an out, and this is for Joe M (I told you that he would try the sympathy card)...lol
here ya go Mrk, maybe this will shut you up and let people that want to get valuable info read.."you are right, you are the best, no one can grow like you, you know it all, your product is the best....Happy now, ego all in check mark.. Do you have your superman PJ's on?

Chris, thanks bro, this joker is all about getting attention at the cost of anything and all others.

3/19/2012 10:44:52 PM

Delevan, ny

Shitscreek NY called 4 times to Tom and didnt receive a call back - Looking elsewhere. Have a computer now.

3/19/2012 11:02:10 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Simma down now!

3/19/2012 11:28:23 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

matt-man great idea...never thought about a hair dryer...had just covered f/male w/ small clear plastic tent, to up the temps...and had males inside on the oven door till they open up!!!! Never had prblms w/ pollination!!! Awlways had prblms w/ finishing a kin! LOL Peace, Wayne

3/20/2012 2:33:23 AM

East Jordan, MI

Mark,
I don't understand your point. It looks to me like you are the one that "needs to keep his facts straight".

On multiple occasions, I have witnessed people that have grown huge pumpkins try to tell you that your "facts" are incorrect and you refuse to listen. Each time it has turned into you starting calling names and mudslinging.

The last time I (prior to this) that the pollination temperature discussion happened you told someone to pull their head out of the A## when they told you that they had never pollinated at over 68 degrees. AND, that conversation wasn't about what temp was "best" to pollinate at -- it was that it was impossible to pollinate below 68 degrees -- your words.

To top it all off, I read BOTH of the URLs you posted and NEITHER one of them refer to being too cold to pollinate. The do reference HIGH temps causing pollination problems, and low night time temps causing problems with fruit set, which I do not think has ever been disputed.

Why continue to spout off with mis-information? Did you think that if you through out some URLs that people would just say "Oh, there you go, he has done his research, must know what he is talking about?"

Lastly, as for
"This is where you started it Tom."How do you figure that pollination is best between 68 -80 and it is a pollination temop issue"?

How does asking someone to explain their theory in a question an attack?

".i guess as long as I'm pushing Great White Tom P will be kickin my butt."

The two have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with each other and clearly meant as an attack. If you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

I really do wish you would keep the crap off of the boards.

3/20/2012 5:37:30 AM

The bottom of New Jersey

OMFG, is Amelio being the voice of reason? The world is surely ending.

3/20/2012 6:34:54 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

I have to apologize to everyone for letting myself get out of control and pursue the negetive side of this post, I know better, and have too much respect for Ken to be doing this.

3/20/2012 6:56:29 AM

Muddy Waters

All this over one comment Ii used the word Best I didnt say anything wasn't possible.Your putting words into my mouth.Changing the content of what was said.I thought this was a forum to bounce around ideas & thoughts around.I see why 80% dont comment on here.If youre not butt kissing Tom & all his groupies then your a fool.lol See you at the scales,have a GREAT summer.I will join the 80% & keep my stupid ideas to myself.

3/20/2012 7:03:05 AM

Ohio

Amelio, can you please translate Handyhomegrown's post's, cause I cant understand any of it.

It went from a simple honest question from ''how is it best between 68-80 degrees?'',and then to his answer about a product that hasnt proven squat yet.

3/20/2012 7:12:53 AM

Muddy Waters

What you guys arent seeing here is Toms attacks at me off the forums,since the GWG failed to drop everything & run to his arrogant self.So when he questioned my statement, which if somebody else would have said the same thing wouldnt have been questioned.He was laying low looking to box my ears,I really dont care what all his groupies think.Post what you like I will not be back on here, to hear it.I will spend my spring & summer in the patch,fishing & having fun.Have a great summer,sorry if I ruined your Low seeds count post Farmer Ben.

3/20/2012 8:05:55 AM

Rhode Island

I know one thing for sure ----------- IT TAKES TWO PEOPLE TO HAVE AN ARGUMENT.Unless of course you have multiple personalities ?

3/20/2012 8:12:54 AM

Pinetops,n.c.

this is just to keep the facts straight, i was the very reason that handy and pumpkin jam had their original conversation about pollenation temps, and i will say that jam never attacked handy, only when jam told mark that he had successfully polled at temps lower than 68 degrees , did mark tell jam to reach around and grab both ears and pull his head out of his a$$.i had just came in from pollenating and had seen marks post about the 68 degree thing, and as luck would have it, it was (you geussed it)68 degrees, and when i told that it was 68 , mark ate it up. since that time i polled under 65 once, and over 70 several others and had good seed counts on all.not trying to stir the pot, but wanted everyone to know from a first hand witness. mark , i know you mean well, but there is always more than one theory on things , no matter what some book says, they aren't always correct. i believe we all need to stay very open minded when reading these boards and make sure you research any theory or advice for ourselves, even if it was gleaned from a book or was told by a veteran grower, simply because all products or techniques may not work for some but do well for others, simply too many variables.

3/20/2012 2:14:31 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

wow, i just return to reading the forums after october, and this is the first thread i read....makes me wonder....

3/22/2012 1:53:35 AM

Minnesota

i didnt read all posts but my guess for low seed count is either genetic or poor pollination. my guess for having lots of immature seeds is either a micronutrient deficiency or too high of ph

3/24/2012 10:11:24 PM