From

Location

Message

Date Posted

milford, CT,

As I have been looking at potential crosses for 2013 I am seeing a dominance of 1385 Jutras lineage in many top seeds. 1725 Harp, 2009 Wallace, 1789 Wallace, 1647 Wallace, 1872 Wallace 1775 Starr, 1421 Stelts , 1495 Stelts, 1634 Werner...
When making crosses with seeds with this lineage should we worry about inbreeding...self them..or cross with a isolated diverse line of genetics. It seems like there is a shift in thinking that selfing may be a good thing. Opinions welcome...Mark

1/7/2013 8:37:16 PM

Minnesota

I noticed the same thing.i looked around for some genetics without 1385 to cross. I'm growing 1495, 1770, and 1554 rose. None I believe have 1385 genes. Also growing a 1730 werner it has distant 1385 about an 1/8. Ill cross the non-dominant 1385 genes with the dominant 1789 and 1775 starr. Others like the 991 urena 1303 sweet 1605 sweet 1494 bordsen 1560 urena are promising and don't.

1/8/2013 10:16:28 AM

Minnesota

Have 1385 genetics

1/8/2013 10:18:35 AM

Minnesota

I just looked up 1494 bordsen (1/4 1385) so the 1730 would also be 1/4 1385

1/8/2013 10:31:04 AM

Hinckley MN

inbreeding depression is not usually seen in curcurbits.
try to find a seed not related to either 1161 Rodonis or 1385 Jutras. going further back 998 Pukos, and 1068 Wallace. few seeds not related to those lines have the potential to grow fruit over 1000lbs. few true green squash or red orange pumpkin lines grow fruit over 1000lbs without being crossed into the "big" ag lines.

The advantage of selfing all your fruit is that when you grow a big one, you know it was polinated by a big one. Many of the largest fruit grown each year were polinated by plants who's fruit were nowhere near as large. Take the 1818 Bryson, whose polinator grew the 1057 Bryson, or the 1794 Pugh whose polinator grew the 1067 Pugh.

the 1725 Harp shows what can happen when a 1700lb fruit is polinated by a plant that grew a 1700lb fruit, more than it proves the value of selfing. so far only 3 fruit over 1700lbs have been polinated by plants that grew fruit over 1700lbs. All were selfed. 1725 Harp, 1770 Lieber, and 1775 Star.

1/8/2013 11:07:26 AM

President - GPC

Hybridization.....

1/8/2013 11:16:53 AM

Minnesota

Don't know, but, I crossed alot of 898knauss seeds together, after the heat and not being able to continue I have decided to just try and grow big! Why the interest in the 898Knauss? look at aggc, all the top pumpkins have that in there lineage, the 1385 mentions it 3 times in its family tree!

1/8/2013 2:31:24 PM

Piqua, Ohio

The 898 threw heavy and was a good pollinator in it's day, I think any seeds you find now all go back to the same handful of pumpkins. The 1770,1775 I agree it would be a good cross and will be making that cross this year! (weather permitting)

1/8/2013 8:18:11 PM

Deerfield, Michigan

I like the 1756 Lancaster due to the 17% heavy and the Wallace/ Harp genetics on the female side. I also like the 1684 Delaney 18% heavy with the Bryson genetics. Most of the seed I want to grow come with the 1161 Rodonis genes.
I will put in both thes seeds and see what I can come up with.

1/8/2013 10:44:39 PM

Sourthern Utah

i believe their still a couple of good oldies out the that have a chance but crossed with some newer seeds ,, just me

1/9/2013 12:17:52 AM

South East

The simpler you keep your thinking, the better.

- Its need to grow heavy offspring, because no one like light pumpkins.
- It needs to grow big (thats what what we do, or atleast try)
- It needs to grow flawless ( no dill rings,,no splits in off spring or at of dmg,s )

If you judge seeds and their offspring honestly, the above should eliminate some. If you add as a requirement a big pollinator and you eliminate even more.

If you take the the above in account and use em to make your decesicions , theres no way your gonna make a bad cross. Inbreeding is no issue, because we are growers, not breeders. Unless you have a long term breeding program going then inbreeding is something the community as a whole is responsible for and can not be controlled by a single grower.
I,d go with my gut and just grow the biggest fruit i could.
All the genetics and crossing talk often times sounds like navel gazing to me.

1/9/2013 10:43:58 PM

Duxbury,Ma.

The growers ability is just as important if not more important. A good grower can grow a heavier pumpkin with inferior seed than visa versa.

1/11/2013 5:24:01 PM

Torrance, Ca.

That's like the pro surfer that can rip it up on any board!


Good point judgehal!

1/11/2013 6:08:25 PM