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Planet Orange

We like the recent talk about orange genetics. Now seems like a good time to reveal some data from this year's collection. There were 44 submissions to the 2012 diary, accounting for roughly half of all GPC weighoff events. We can only work with the data we have but it is a start. Hopefully more growers and/ or site representatives will assist us in 2013 with their submissions. MAGPG

2/7/2013 5:12:39 PM

Planet Orange

Average weight    793.98
Median weight    797.65

Most HD awards 2012: Gansert-3    Cantrell-2 Risi-2

Mother seed produced most HD winners 2012: 1495 Stelts-3, 1059 Vincent-2, 1244 Rea-2, 1634 Werner-2, 513 Vincent-2, 811 Gerhardt-2

Seed used as pollinator for most HD winners new 2012 crosses: 1161 Rodonis-2,    1210 VanHook-2, 1290 Piorier-2,    1404 Bryson-2, 1634 Werner-2


# HD winning pumpkins that were selfed as 2012 cross: 5

Most HD awards first year out (2011 seeds): 811 Gerhardt-2

2/7/2013 5:19:02 PM

Johnston, R.I.

Thanks Jim for sharing this info, and also maintaining the HD diary..

2/7/2013 5:56:06 PM

Great info, thanks very much for creating the diary to collect photos of HD award winners and crunching these numbers.

2/7/2013 7:57:20 PM

Partlow,Va

Good stuff

2/7/2013 9:12:33 PM

I have to admit I'm not usually a big orange fan, but I thought this was a pretty nice one:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=191882

Hmm...what was lot 16 on this Saturday's auction again??? :)

2/8/2013 3:12:08 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

The AGGC being on hold for a year makes it a little harder to interpret the data than it would have been. Also, the missing ~50 or so GPC sites without photo and seed data means the list could be skewed considerably. Fortunately since I am only planing my own seeds this year I have another year to sort it all out.

The mother seed data raises some immediate attention. More HD awards were grown off the 1495 Stelts than any other seed this year? More than the 1059 VM? And the 1634 Werner is in there as well? What that tells me is that many HD awards may be getting won by accident or coincidence. IMO the message to the growers planting specifically for orange in the hopes of an HD win should be loud and clear: Whether or not your site has a weight minimum to qualify for the Howard Dill award, you simply must get that pumpkin up over 500 lbs. A lot of growers today won't even notice a pumpkin under 500 lbs.

2/11/2013 1:17:28 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

The next thing I am looking at is the male pollinators. the 1161, 1210, 1290 make sense as they were orange themselves and/ or have produced orange with some frequency. But the 1404 and the 1634? And looking over the complete list, there are a lot of big but not necessary pretty pumpkins used as the pollinator. This reinforces the coincidence win theory. But moreover, it shows that even among the dedicated orange growers the desire to grow a larger orange pumpkin via crossing orange and heavy together remains a powerful motivation. The hunt for big and orange if you will.

There were only 5 selfed pumpkins recorded. Yes some growers may self because they are limited by the number of plants they can grow but this certainly was not the case with the 1048 Engel or the 611.5 Miller. These pumpkins were likely selfed so as to solidify the orange and round traits within the seeds. I think this is key if we are going to win the race for big and orange.

Sooner or later the orange grower has to make the leap and use one of those big and maybe not so pretty pumpkins as the pollinator in order to get the size of the offspring moving up in the right direction. But when done I suggest stacking the deck with as much orange genetic material as you can, and a good way to do that is by growing a seed that A) grew a nice orange pumpkin and B) was selfed.

Just some of my thoughts in the hopes of opening up some discussion.

2/11/2013 1:30:09 PM

President - GPC

I have your pollinator.... My 1450 Wallace waZ ORANGE>..My 1810 StevenZ was primarly 1662/904 SteltZ.... I crossed them back and forth....on both sides...

The 1450 gave the orange to...1161 > 1610, Yours if you want.....

2/11/2013 1:41:55 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Never...Never will I cross an ugly huge heavy pumpkin with a beautiful pumpkin.. I know there must be some kind of therapy out there, that is affordable.
Although I was looking at the 1634 as a pollinator for the 1048

2/11/2013 1:57:33 PM

President - GPC

My 1450 looked like the 1250 Kline about half that size, WrinkleZ 1810 was a spitting image of the the 1662, shiny, speckled orange...

Ask CoJoe...he got to see em.

2/11/2013 3:32:11 PM

Massillon, Ohio

I am one making the leap to use bigger pumpkins to move our orange beauties up a notch. The 1634 Werner is in my plans. Quinn's 1498 was a HD winner, grown off a 1495 & pollinated with a 1634.

My 2012 pumpkin grown off a 1634 was est at 1240 lbs when it split in early Aug. It was orange, but not round. It was pollinated with the 1059 VM. The pumpkin it grew was beautiful, & on track to be the biggest 1059. Mr Orange Gansert now has that title! It was 900 lbs at the end of July when it popped a pinhole. I'm excited about this cross, and wondering if there are any others out there. Anybody know? Sure miss AGGC!!!!

I'm also wondering how the 1770 Lieber will help our cause!

2/11/2013 4:21:26 PM

Massillon, Ohio

I'll go on record for saying I think the sleeper is the 979 McMillan. Dave, BP "Bumkin", grew an absolutely beautiful 1634 this past year. He pollinated it with his 300 McMillan (1610 Lieber x 1725 Harp) which was also beautiful. When he grew the 300 this year, it too was gorgeous. It split at 1,000 lbs, but showed that it could put on the size and be a nice shape and bright orange.

Good luck Dave!!!

2/11/2013 4:32:24 PM

President - GPC

Nana, Go forZ it.. I too will hitup another orange cross for that quest...

1370 Rose X 980 FredrickZ.... back and forth.

2/11/2013 5:47:58 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Wiz, Glenna, you have it right. I spoke of stacking the genetic deck with orange, on the side of the cross with solid orange genetics already built into it. Preferably a selfed pumpkin. But choosing the correct pollinator is also a way to bring in additional orange genes while still dumping some heaviness into the equation. In my patch I brought the 1332 Wolf into my line for a very specific reason; it was a large offspring grown from the 1544 Revier that also (perhaps randomly) happened to be of perfect shape, and orange too. Not knockout orange but solid. And another thing is I don't recall it having much cantaloping, which is important to me especially with a pumpkin over 1300 lbs. I don't think I ever asked Andy if he thought it would grow such a nice looking pumpkin, as opposed to simply heavy. Knowing Andy he probably had somewhat of a good hunch.

2/11/2013 7:12:52 PM

Johnston, R.I.

First, I would like to say thank you Jim for taking care of the HD Club diary, I am sure it will be a big help to all interested in orange. I agree with Shannon about not crossing in a heavy pumpkin just to bring up the weights. This is only an opinion of mine with no science to back it up.. I am still very fond of the 1059 even though I will not grow it this season, but it will be back in 2014.. I plan on crossing the 811 and 870 Wolf and 723 Kaczenski into what I have done so far and see where the cards fall in September..

2/11/2013 9:37:31 PM

SW Ohio

Glenna, Marcel Krüger from Germany did the 1634 x 1059 and the reverse cross in 2012. Both pumpkins had great shape and color.

2/12/2013 5:57:23 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Sue...I thought we agreed to disagree that this was our secret weapon for 2013...Man those HD awards are going to be hard to get once this movement takes off.

2/12/2013 7:48:39 AM

Johnston, R.I.

Shannon, the more people that grow orange the better it is for all of us..

2/12/2013 8:27:42 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

I agree norm! I hope this is finally the year that we have 30 orange contenders show up at doylestown for the Howard dill award. We still back it with a $500 prize and this year our weighoff is on sept 28. There are no other weighoffs on the east coast that weekend so there should be no excuses!

2/12/2013 9:24:33 AM

Massillon, Ohio

Thanks Sue. I tried to find a diary, but no luck.

Certainly, any ol' big ugly pumpkin won't do. But finding just the right one to add some weight, yet maintain the orange and pretty would be the goal. Otherwise, what do we have to get the weights up, other than some genetic luck and skill of the grower. That makes me think of another question. Maybe I'll start a new thread.

I also thank Jim for his efforts in organizing the HD winners, the orange growers, and sharing of our ideas.

I'll be watching all the orange diaries this year, and wishing you the best!

2/12/2013 10:13:29 AM

Massillon, Ohio

Naa...I'll forget the new thread. The question is....if the skill of the grower is what gets the weight up....then does that bigger pumpkin now have the genetic makeup to grow bigger pumpkins?...or is the genetic makeup the same as it was before, and the average grower still won't get a bigger pumpkin? Perhaps a silly question, but I often think of silly things!! Guess I'd better get back to work!!!

2/12/2013 10:37:07 AM

Germany

Here is a link to Marcel Krügers diary on the German Website : http://www.crazy-growers.de/viewtopic.php?t=2756&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
As I know absolutly the nicest german pumpkin in 2012.

2/12/2013 10:55:30 AM

Massillon, Ohio

Thanks Benny. Two beautiful pumpkins....should be a great cross.

2/12/2013 11:11:33 AM

SW Ohio

Shannon.. you know I can't keep a secret ;)
Besides it's Glenna and she is from Ohio and us Ohio gals have to help each other out...
Etc, Etc....

Glenna I sure hope it's the genetics and not the skill of the grower or I may be in trouble LoL

2/12/2013 12:24:05 PM

Minnesota(dw447@fastmail.fm)

Thanks for the info. Jim, and for your dedication to orange genetics. The pumpkin you grew off your 811 last year was one of the finest orange specimens I've ever seen(great color and shape!).
This year I'm thinking of growing a 1161 Rodonis X 1421 Stelts cross, where the 1161 produced a really orange pumpkin, and the 1421 produced a semi-orange pumpkin. I'm hoping for the big and orange genetics to shine through. I'm also planning on growing the 1161 Rodonis, and selfing it, in hopes that it's a really orange one.

2/12/2013 12:28:44 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

For all the time I've been growing the giants, I usually "TRY" to include a true orange seed in hopes of growing an HD winner. And, almost every time that orange seed has some sort of issue which prevents me from bringing it to maturity. What to do?

This year it's all or nothing. I plan on starting six true orange ONLY seeds and just "going for it" in general. Bring it on!

2/12/2013 12:35:03 PM

San Diego

I bred my 980 Fredricks first and foremost for size in the hope that it would go orange as well. So far, I am amazed at how beautiful the fruit are grown off of it. It has mainly seen dirt in San Diego and Los Angeles. I feel strongly that if it gets planted up in prime growing areas, it would pop off some monster orange fruit with good wall thickness. My 1116 was 1% over new chart in an extreme summer. We don't have any GPC events in our area or I'm sure we would have had some dill awards for sure on this seed.

2/12/2013 12:38:42 PM

Johnston, R.I.

I marked it off on my calender.. Jim see you sept 28th..

2/12/2013 12:48:53 PM

Mission Viejo, CA

Jim's grown some great Orange kins. SoCal grew a dandy last year too. I like Big but everyone loves a Big and Orange kin! 1116 is a giant for these parts when we get 100-110 degree days.

2/13/2013 12:02:42 AM

Torrance, Ca.

I got to help Jim get the 1116 out of the patch. Shinny, big, fantastic shape and purdy, purdy orange!

Like Jim said, given the right area and climate,,,,,, the 980 Fredricks could be a true " BIG " orange contender!

2/13/2013 1:14:00 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Awesome norm! I look forward to it!

Jim Fredrick's: is the 1116 a selfed 980? What was the cross of the 980 again?

2/13/2013 9:32:39 AM

San Diego

the 1116 was a 980 by self. Unfortunately, I have 7 or 8 seeds only from that fruit, everything else rotted.

The 980 Fredricks was grown in 2011, so only one season under it's belt. I felt like I needed to prove it myself and I only grow one a year, The 980 was 1544 revier by 1610 liber. The 980 was grown in 400 sq ft with heavy damage from sow bugs to roots and leaves. They caught me off guard and I grow organic. The 1610 that it was crossed with went down to disease when the fruit was 15 days old (my friend vince was growing it). It was absolutely flying in growth up to that point and you could tell it was gonna go super smooth and orange. The 1544 grew the 980 and it was a medium light orange, very nice shape and heavy to the chart.

In my humble opinion, most 1544 revier's go way heavy, nice shape, and light to medium orange, and pretty big. A good cross into orange genes for size and thickness.

2/13/2013 1:46:38 PM

Rhode Island

Here,s my 2011 cross,,, 585 Buglio 1090 northup
x
1059 Vincent
if you look at the 1090,,, what a beauty.. and we all no about the 1059 ,, The mice got to the bottom
of pumpkn,, great plant, and great Orange Gen.
Anyone want any seed.s just send me a bubble.
here is the picture http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=170285

2/14/2013 4:18:29 PM