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Lodi, California

I was just wondering about the genetic likeness of the 220,2009 and the 1734. If you look at these genetic lines, you will find that they are all genetically the same, except for the fact that some genetic lines are more pronounced than others. For example, the seeds from the 220 is technically 3/4 1725 and 1/4 1409, where as the 2009 seeds are 1/2 1725 and 1/2 1409. We can obviously say that the 2009 is the top proven seed seed out there, and that the 220 is definately following right behind as far as how proven the seed is, so what is happening here? The 2009 is undoubtedly outpreforming the 1725, but half of its genetic traits come from the 1409. So how exactly does this equate without the 1409 being genetically superior to the 1725? Also, if the 1734 has the exact same genetic traits as the 220, is it really any different than the 220? Thanks for the help in clearing this up!

11/29/2013 12:44:10 AM

Eugene,OR

The 1409 miller is a seed which seems to have the ability to consistently create extra-heavy 2nd generation offspring, which can also grow very large. In addition to the 2009, everything else that Tim Matheson grew this year was from 1409 genetics. The 1548 Hawkley is another example of a 1409 cross that has been very successful in growing big, heavy fruit. My 1446 Pugh (1409 x 1532 Pugh) grew my 1578 Pugh this year. there are many other 1409 crosses (mainly grown in northern California) which also support this trend. I think it will be a very significant improvement to big/heavy genetics if enough growers figure it out. Prior to the 1409 we were having a difficult time getting extra big fruit to go heavy, in fact they usually went light. The 1725 may grow big, but they are often light. With the 1409 added in you get big & heavy. A match made in pumpkin growing heaven.

11/29/2013 1:52:19 AM

England, essex

which sounds even better for those of us who don't get to grow (top) next generation seeds,,
of which there are so many out there to find.

11/29/2013 6:47:02 AM

Colorado

Ashton, The 1734 is all 220 on paper but its not the same as a 220. Its 100% the same as one of the 220 seeds(genetically speaking).Since each 1734 seed has gone though the recombination that makes a seed,each 1734 will be unique and will show variability compared to the 1734 parent.So the answer to the question is "no" theyre all different. Thats the nature of seeds. Which ones best? Have to grow a large sample of each to find out.

11/29/2013 12:53:10 PM

Lodi, California

cojoe,

Thats pretty much what i was going for,,, so genetically speaking, if you get a random seed out of the 1734, it has the same genetic potential as any seed out of the 220 or any seed that is selfed? Thanks

11/29/2013 2:48:31 PM

Lodi, California

by any seed that is selfed I mean 2009xself would be pretty much the same as a 2009 seed out of the 2009, with the exceptiuon that every seed in the 2009 is different, as well as the seeds in the 2009xself. Thanks

Ashton

11/29/2013 2:50:54 PM

Eugene,OR

The seeds in the 1734 are like brothers & sisters whose mother & father are the same person.

11/30/2013 9:37:39 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

I know we are talking pumpkins, but Michael Jordan has a couple brothers too.

12/1/2013 11:06:55 AM

Midway, UT

This doesn't directly answer your question, but I thought this was interesting. Having seen a 220 and a cutting of the 1725 that grew the 2009 in the same patch I can say, at least for the 220 I saw, it was similar but not the same plant. The pumpkin on the 220 had a very similar shape to the world record pumpkin, the leaves were similar in shape to the 1725 cutting but were smaller and after that the differences between the two plants was very noticeable. The 1725 plant had more vigor. It just seemed to have another gear to it even though it was just a cutting growing on a small spot. That surprised me somewhat. I know if you were to grow fifty 220 seeds you might find a number that would grow more similar to the 1725, but with 3/4 of the genetics in the 220 being essentially 1725 I thought those 1725 traits might be more pronounced but in this case they were not. As soon as you start mixing those blood lines, even when it is a selfed seed, you always get something different. Sometimes something that might not look like the parents at all.

12/1/2013 9:43:36 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Ashton, been around for a while, not a big grower, but have read several times that every seed out of an AG is different..."no" theyre all different." Quote from cojoe!!! I would guess that some similarities will exist, but no guarantees on any given seed!! Peace, Wayne

12/14/2013 3:50:26 PM