From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Lodi, California

Hi,

I was looking on the internet for an answer for this but I cannot find one. How exactly can you tell what genes are dominant or recessive without spending 10 years growing 40 plants and observing the offspring of those plants? Thanks!

12/31/2013 12:38:16 PM

Lodi, California

In other words, if you cross 1495 with 2009, how do you knpw which alleles are dominant and which are recessive? What percent of the offspring would be pale? what percent orange?

12/31/2013 12:44:30 PM

Midway, UT

I'd love to see others reply to this post but I would say the answer is we don't know enough about the pumpkin genome to answer this one. I think the part that makes your question hard to answer is that each seed in a pumpkin is going to be different genetically. I've seen 1385 Jutras pumpkins that were beautiful orange and I've seen 1385 Jutras pumpkins that were nearly pure white. So I guess it would depend on which 1495 and which 2009 you grew. If I would hazard a guess however I would say a 1495 x 2009 would produce an orange pumpkin because other crosses with the 1495 seem to have produced orange and there have been enough pumpkins grown that you can have a relatively high level of confidence but no guarantees.

12/31/2013 8:02:10 PM

norway , maine

great question Ashton, ide love to hear what Cliffwarren, Joze and Bathabitat thoughts are

12/31/2013 8:12:53 PM

Lodi, California

Arvadaboy,

All offspring can be random. That is why I asked this. You see, when you sort different alleles into a punnett square, each genetic pair (recessive or dominant) makes up % 25 of the crosses genetic outcome. So, if you cross 1495 with a 2009, and the 2009 in question produces pale fruit and the 1495 prodeces orange fruit. Say that orange is dominant and pale is recessive. Orange is capital o (O) to represent a dominant gene, which is orange, and lowercase o (o) which is recessive. So the 1495 would be something like heterozygous O O and the 2009 something like homozygous O o. I dont exactly understand though how we lable plants as having a dominant or recessive allele.

12/31/2013 9:53:22 PM

Lodi, California

Oops sorry should be the 2009 produces orange % 75 of the time and pale % 25.

12/31/2013 9:54:41 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Ashton, contact John VanHook!!!! He told us about a thing called (I think) the Pundent Square? Which basically says that at any point in the dominant/recessive game....anything can happen!!! Some genes, dominant ...of course will happen more often! Some genes, recessive ...will happen less often! Until the Federal Government decides it wants to know about awl of this...we "the public" will prbly never know!!!? LOL Peace, Wayne

12/31/2013 9:58:58 PM

Lodi, California

punnett square. Here is a useful/interesting video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1PCwxUDTl8

12/31/2013 10:21:28 PM

NE Kansas

One thing to keep in mind is the frequency of reproduction. I have been breeding pigeons for many years. Pigeons carry genes for specific color patterns. You can breed up to four generations in two years with no light or hormone manipulation. You generally get 6-8 broods per year. Two squabs per brood. Fifty percent of the broods are generally male/female and the other 50 percent is male/male or female/female (generally). The Punnett square, as you can see, allows for great predictability, even with variables. With AG's, there is such a degree of variability that it would be near impossible for the average grower.

12/31/2013 11:50:53 PM

norway , maine

the punnett sqr link is pretty cool thnx !

1/1/2014 6:40:20 AM

Eurasia

Happy New Year first.
Meanwhile CA is in 2014 too...we have 1pm in Europe.
Let me show a recessive gene for shape in F2 of our new intergeneric crossbreeding Cucurbita maximelo (this name is no official batanic term, it´s the chimera of a nine years old boy):
1. Most fruits were a flattended ellipsoid with a diameter like the F1 mother fruit and the grandmother Cucurbita maxima kabocha group.
Here the melon-shape of the small Cucumis melo inodorus group `Tigger´ is recessive and only was able to flatten the fruits. Color was orange.
2. Only one fruit was double dominant with the large round shape and therefore is named `Basketball´. Color was orange.
3. Only one fruit was double recessive with the small melo-size but a shape like an acorn pumpkin. Color was deep orange to red with a little motteling of the Tigermelon around the ground spot. The ground spot in turn comes from the kabocha pumpkin.
For it´s shape this last fruit now is the variety Cucurbita maximelo `Acorneti´.

1/1/2014 7:35:57 AM

Eurasia

What to learn from this experience:
Pumpkins are dominant with great shape against smaller cucurbitaceae when crossed intergeneric.
And so we can do a lot of interspecific and intergeneric crossbreeding to get some resistances into AGs.
But you have to prime it with a Japanese pumpkin a Cucurbita maxima out of the kabocha group.
After two generations you can pollinate the new double dominant (DD) seed with an AG...and the selected product pollinate with an AG...and the selected product pollinate with and AG...
If you do not use the DD, you have the monstrous flat tires like ron Wallace and Benni Meier.
If you only breed for the deep orange to red color like Ron Rahe, RichardB. and I do, we lose the great size in the end.

Ashton, breeding without GMO always means: Don´t get out of patience!

1/1/2014 7:36:21 AM

Minnesota

Melo:I try for a 1 orange pumpkin and 1 heavy pumpkin usually. If its a world record who cares what it looks like!

1/1/2014 8:21:15 AM

Shingle Springs, CA

Ash, the science of genetics is both elegant in its simplicity and yet so incredibly complex in the vastness of its details. Much is still not known and the specifics of many species like our pumpkins may not be fully elucidated for years given the cost of gene mapping and the relatively low economic value of knowing all the genomes of the various pumpkin species. Here is something though that is true and well known and may be of help to what you are trying to do. The phenotypes that we observe are 100% the result of just two things - the genes of the genotype (which set the potential) and the environment of that individual organism (which determines how much of that potential is realized). In the case of color there are likely several gene loci involved (especially if we consider modifier genes) and so we are not going to see numbers reflecting a simple dominant/recessive relationship of one color gene pair. Here is the part you need to remember - you will not get the color you want if the gene is not present in your breeding gene pool (imagine trying to breed champion Great Danes if your breeding pool consisted only of a pair of Chihuahuas). So if you want color and size, I think a pumpkin produced from the 1495 and the 2009 would produce pumpkins (and seeds) with many of the right genes you need. You can't grow enough pumpkins as one individual to sort this out and so this is why the sharing of data within the GP community is so important.

1/1/2014 8:59:49 AM

Eurasia

All around the 2009 is an ellipsoid, as well as the 1725 Harp was flattened. You now have a very very little chance to grow a robust and solid round fruit out of this impasse-genetics!
Matt DeBacco now is a superstar with a seemingly upright ball, ´cause it a baby fruit. But look at this baby: it is boned! This little fruit has a broad basis.
The 220.3 also has the flat genetics!
All is 1385.5 Jutras a absolutely nice flat fruit.
I go back and back...
...and here it is: Will Neily pollinated the 752.5 Stellpflug with his 509* squash from 1988 in 1994 to grow the legendary 614 Neily 94, grandmother of the 909.5 Lloyd 96 and the 875 Lloyd 96...
Stellpflug already grew as flat tired as Jutras with his 1385.5, but Will Neily recognized, that he MUST pollinate better shape with his great squash from 1988.
Why does your tool from pumpkinfanatic.com not show up such information?
Modern growers have to see that there has to come good shape again.
I was banished here, because I encouraged growers to grow not only stubborn big. Growers have lost two years, when they now open their mind...and they will have lost five years, when they grow three years more now the stalemated 2009 hype.

1/1/2014 10:15:09 AM

NE Kansas

Illusion of knowledge...

1/1/2014 10:55:19 AM

Eurasia

Lloyd´s 935 was 875 x 909.5, and that´s the point, where Wallace´s world went wrong! Ron Wallace´s primordial mother 1068 had the mother 845 Bobier 00 and so grandmother 935.
Through this best grandmother the 1068.2 had a nice and solid circumcircle and showed a little green from Neily´s squash as well...but this fruit was clinched between stem end and blossom eng and could not stand. I think, that at that time a scallop squash Benning´s Green Tint must have been accidental pollinator with very dominant genes for self-clinching. 1746.5 Lancaster 13 had the scallow edge from the pollinator 1649 Lancaster 12 a 3/4 1068.
I go back behind the 1068 to mind the 845 Bobier and grow the stretto 935 Lloyd...two times selfed and nothing else!

1/1/2014 10:58:06 AM

melopumpksy you dont know shit

1/1/2014 11:06:17 AM

Eurasia

Mr. Young, can you please name one fact that isn´t exactly true? I´m open to criticism, but you seem to be a drunken body, Sir.

1/1/2014 11:24:41 AM

50 Acres

Just use the racehorse theroy. Bred the best to the best, and hope for the best.

1/1/2014 12:05:47 PM

Lodi, California

shew,

I actually prefer big pale flat tires lol. The only reason that I brought up the red and white/pale alleles was because they are the easiest to recognize.

melo,

wait, this is getting a bit confusing. So your saying that the 1068 is part squash? and that due to this it had a slight green tint? So your stating that the green genes from the 935 mixed with the orange genes of another pumpkin? That means that the geen and orange alleles are showing codominance, which I dont think is what happens when you breed squash and pumpkins, as the orange allele is dominant to the green allele

1/1/2014 12:51:36 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Ashton,

As was previously stated the phenotype is the result of the geneotype + environmental interaction. The best way to solve your problem would be to self pollinate several lines until your traits of interest become fixed. What I mean by this is orange will always produce orange, green will produce green and so on. You would then cross your selfed lines and analyze your F1 and F2 generations. Like you said this takes time and space. I am trying to produce double haploids to eliminate both of these problems, but lets get to your question.

Just from observation this is my current hypothesis. The orange allele is dominant. The white allele is a mutated form of the orange allele and is also dominant. If a plant has both an orange and white allele the pumpkin will still be orange because the plant has one functional copy of the orange gene. The green allele is recessive. I believe there is also a dull/shiny gene that affects color. In squash the dull gene makes fruits look more blue, and the shiny makes them more green. In pumpkins the dull gene makes the fruit look more salmon color, and shiny fruit can look almost florescent orange. The dull/shiny gene is not the same as the cantaloupe gene in my opinion.

In actuality the color of fruits may be more or less complex. My hypothesis is just a hypothesis and is always subject to change.

1/1/2014 12:53:06 PM

Eurasia

@ LittleHud
Please look forward from the 2032 Meier: grower´s can´t transport a pancake-like pumpkin with the basal area greater than the platform of their pickup car.

1/1/2014 12:56:33 PM

Lodi, California

er incomplete dominance, unless there are green spots on your pumpkin which could be seen as codominance, but of course for codominance and incomplete dominance to work both genes have to be neather dominant (incomplete doninance) or both dominant (codominance), but the green gene is recessive and the orange dominant, which is baisically one of the only recessive/dominant alleles that I know about in pumpkins.

1/1/2014 12:59:39 PM

Lodi, California

2032 Mathison or 2328 Meier?

1/1/2014 1:04:03 PM

Eurasia

Ashton, Benning´s Green Tint is a variety of scallops squashes, and this variety is whitish and only slightly chartreuse. Many growers ask me, how this could come, when they can´t see any influence of squash fruits.
The 1068.2 had a rest of squash from the motherline back to Neily´s 509.
But the 1068.2 also had the shape of a scallop.
Nobody wanted to diferenciate the upper slightly green and the squash-green underside.
I have to grow breeding lines for industrial farming, and so I can´t take the product of Wallace´s decades-long cowboy-job.
I come from ag-science and professional gardening, and I never had respect for the Wallace´s maffia.
Growers have to catch a breath with the beginning of the new year and emancipate themselves.
Grow everything but Wallace-genetix!

1/1/2014 1:14:32 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Here are two links to squash x pumpkin discussions
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=24&p=459597
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=24&p=384465

Here are pictures
1106 Horde ( 947*Cuypers x 1012.5*Pitura ) 75% squash 25% pumpkin
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=172546
622 Grande ( 848*MacKenzie x 1470 Wallace)
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=171669
1046.6 Bowles (Shiny)
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=75532
2032 Mathison (Dull/salmon)
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=179&gid=58
1040 Van Rompaey (Shiny)
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/DisplayPhoto.asp?pid=4627
1234 Wursten (Dull/blue)
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=75066

1/1/2014 1:17:45 PM

Eugene,OR

Ashton, your punnett square makes the assumption that there are just two genes (1dominant &1 recessive) when in reality there are probably multiple genes. Unless the entire genome is mapped, then we are just guessing.

1/1/2014 1:18:17 PM

Eurasia

Yes, very good Ashton: I mixed up bad monsters.
Whatever!
But nobody could deny the correctness of my information about the real grower´s world around Len Stellpflug, Will Neily, Lloyd and Burke. Even the Bhakarans did better work in breeding giant pumpkins than that Wallaces with their pumpkin communism: turn that genetically Wallace-pudding upside down and let it flow through the gutter.

1/1/2014 1:25:07 PM

Lodi, California

That all depends Melo. Yoy are going for round, we are going for heavy. You are the minority and we are the majority, so we think of the 2009 and 220 as genetic genius, whereas you think of flat tire.

1/1/2014 1:33:40 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Ashton,

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/displayphoto.asp?pid=5528&gid=1

Phenotype= genotype + environmental interaction. There may be other genes that cause chlorophyll production in pumpkins that are "turned on" by environmental interaction.

There may also be other "green genes". Below is a link to my diary. The fruit was the result of crossing the 1488 Marsh with a lundelliana gourd. The fruit look very similar to the lundelliana but was 4x the size and had thicker flesh. This shows the wild green gene is dominant to the orange genes in the AGs.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=210702

1/1/2014 1:35:24 PM

East Jordan, MI

Yet another PERFECT example that you don't have a clue of the topic of which you speak. But you still continue to speak as though you are the only expert and everyone else is a dolt.

"@ LittleHud
Please look forward from the 2032 Meier: grower´s can´t transport a pancake-like pumpkin with the basal area greater than the platform of their pickup car."

First it is the 2328 Meier or the 2032 Mathison (as Ashton has already pointed out)

and Secondly, MANY Growers are already (and have been for years) growing pumpkins that will not fit in the bed of their pickups, yet they transport them with no problems. A lot of them do it with JUST their pickup (even though it doesn't physically fit inside of the box). Think about that one and see if your
ostentatious genius can discern how someone of lesser intellect could have possibly solved the problem that you think you have just discovered.

SO do us all a favor and don't make statements as truth about things you know absolutely nothing about.

Your continued drivel about EVERYTHING is not only preposterous but annoying.

You MIGHT actually learn something on this site if you would read more and type less.

And for anyone on this site that reads your diarrhea of the mouth, I hope they do it for the comic relief. Because I agree with Mr. Young. You don't know shit.

1/1/2014 1:38:31 PM

Lodi, California

I remember seeing the 1985 on a giant pattet on top of the sides of the bed.

1/1/2014 1:41:53 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Am I missing out on something? Someone crossed a c. pepo squash that weighs a fraction of a pound into a c. maxima Atlantic to get flat giants that weigh a ton? I think I'm going to cross my AG with a long gourd and get a pumpkin that is 10' long and weighs 7 tons.

1/1/2014 2:05:03 PM

Eurasia

The 845 Bobier 2000 was unofficially weighed and is worthless for serious breeding. But the whole Wallace-pudding smells to high heaven with so much Bobier-fishgenes.
That´s like in China, where communists created GMO-tomatoes with genes of fish and brought it through the border to Western Eruope in the 1980s.
And so we have to mind this gap from Bobier 2000 and it´s descendants totally and begin again with the 935 Lloyd.
The angler Bobier brought the addiction of AGs to seaweed and fish-products.
We can´t use any such seafood with too much Hg for quality pumpkins or even fine food.
The drunken bodies also could be silent and ram their head against a wall, instead of hampering serious discussion of free people who were not free for such a long time of Wallace´s dictatorship.

1/1/2014 2:22:07 PM

Colorado

The orange in the 1495 stelts seems to be dominant. It origin was 801.5 stelts,then 846.6 calai,then 1260 weir, then1370rose then 904 stelts then 1495.Still producing deep red orange fruit.

1/1/2014 2:23:42 PM

Eurasia

@ Iowegian
Nowhere else than in the world of Cucurbitaceae you can do so much intergeneric crossbreeding. Most people trash accidentally pollinated fruits, but I picked some up and breeded melons into pumpkins.
You are free to try anything.
But you should know about genetical rules, so you always know what you have done...and you know how to select for your special aims.
This is no serious sport, when Wallaces do not tell us, how they brought the scallop into their AGs.
As growers Wallaces take themselves very seriously, but I never could share that.
The world needs a open pumpkin grower´s forum.

1/1/2014 2:36:30 PM

my last time talkin to you ludwig the idiot

show us what u have grown

1/1/2014 2:37:32 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Thanks Don,,,,,, lots of gibberish but we need to see some of this in your diary this year,,,,,, please!!!


We need to see some pudding!

1/1/2014 3:10:18 PM

North Smithfield, RI

Hay Amelio ,,,, What gives you the right to trash the top growers in this sport ? I'm not one . I think this site is for the education of newbies and serious pumpkin Fanatics . So maybe you can find another site to mouth-off on !
Happy New year every body !!!

1/1/2014 3:24:44 PM

Eurasia

Mr. Young, I won´t sell you my breedings, and I beg you: do not influence new growers further on with presents of your seed to make them addicted to this superfluously sportive Wallace´s communism.
A have a poor friend, who is neurologically exposed...and you made him addicted to you and your 829 Young 13 and told him, that no other fruit came out of Iowa last year, that was heavier then 1000 pounds, but did not tell him that you grew an example of lost hybrid vigor in that 2009 Wallace 12 DAMAGED fruit x by the flattened 1725 Harp 09.
This poor lad thinks, that he would be able to grow a NWR with your 829 and your 1333.
Better trash all the seed of your 829, Sir.

1/1/2014 3:29:51 PM

Eurasia

@ GEOD
Let me free poor addicts further on, please.
Your sport with AGs and grow Zem grow Zem bibibig is no grower´s sport but a alibi for lushes and potheads to drink and smoke without disturbance.
Let me try to talk to real growers, please.
Why should growers not cross and breed without Wallace´s genetic-pudding?

1/1/2014 3:35:52 PM

Brush, Colorado

Not that I am an expert on BIG yet with a pb of 610 this year, I have some thoughts on BIG and ORANGE. Color will be achievable with basic genetics and balanced soil nutrients. BIG globes must be sound. When I mention soundness, this means the globe must be able to support itself. Engineering the shape of the globe is important. How many round buildings do you see downtown? What shape is used to support an object? Round or square? And dill rings are not conducive to big sound globes. The BIG boys will need to be square shouldered and butt with a large base early in their development. I think ribbing is important for the structure, but should be wide and few. The most important nutrient to make heavy is K. As I stated earlier, disregard me not being an expert if you live more than 50 miles from me. Happy New Yearz.

1/1/2014 3:36:38 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

WOWWW! i think some people have been holding their head a bit too close to the microwave.lol Don't like it?? Put it on ignore..isn't that why the feature is available??

1/1/2014 3:42:12 PM

Piqua, Ohio

lost hybrid vigor in the 2009? my 2009 was the most vigorous and aggressive plant I've ever grown.

1/1/2014 3:58:21 PM

Eurasia

@ Diggerkin
You´re great!
A Happy New Year To You Too!
The best shape for big sound globes might come through the little pumpkin tristrar or Triamble, I think.
I asked, whether Wallaces had triamble-genes or scallop in their modern breeding, but they ignored that question.
Well? Out of the AGs do this edge of the 1746.5 Lancaster 13 or the bulges of the 2032 WR not come.
Since we have to exclude any influence of triamble, we have to introduce the solidity of tristar shape and density in AG growing. I´ve bought tristar seed for this season, and I know how to get it´s shape-stability into AGs.
But I would like to enable more growers to do so too.

1/1/2014 4:06:55 PM

Eurasia

Hey Piqua, I wrote about the lost hybrid vigor of the cross 2009 x 1725.

1/1/2014 4:10:22 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

If Don Young is spreading Wallace communism, call me comrade. I plan to grow mostly seeds with the 2009 Wallace and 1775 Harp genetics next year, including Don's 829. By the way, Don's 829 was a sound pumpkin, NO DAMAGE. I know, I was there and I felt fortunate to finish one place ahead of Don. There was one pumpkin over 1000# grown in Clinton, Iowa along the Mississippi River. That has happened twice in recent years. If some who thinks he knows it all knew all of the facts he would know that it was weather, not genetics that held back the weights in Iowa the last 2 years. Last May over half of Iowa had a heavy wet snow. My patch was just 20 miles east of the snow, Clinton was 60 miles east of the snow and Don's patch was right in the middle of it. I just had tremendous rains in April that made my patch look like a Wisconsin cranberry bog. June, July and August were warmer than normal and was a very severe drought. The interior rivers in eastern Iowa had record low flows. The Mississippi had high flows due to all of the rains upstream in Minnesota and Wisconsin. The micro-climate in Clinton is influenced a lot by the Mississippi river. Winters are usually a couple degrees warmer and summers a couple degrees cooler. And summers are just a little more humid due to all the water going down the river. I worked and went to college in Clinton for 2 years, commuting from 20 miles to the west. I saw many days that were foggy along the river and perfectly sunny and dry just 10 miles to the west. That is an advantage in a severe drought and in my opinion is PART of the reason that the Clinton growers had better success. I attribute my limited success last year to being in a deep narrow valley that has reduced sunlight and a cooler, more humid micro-climate than the flat land just a mile away.

1/1/2014 5:10:20 PM

Lodi, California

I think that this post is starting to go in the wrong direction.

1/1/2014 6:12:31 PM

norway , maine

YUP...Ludwig has taken another crap on another good thread.

1/1/2014 7:09:34 PM

Eurasia

Ashton, I told you very valuable facts about the need of combining dominance for a stably round shape.
That way is false, when growers want to run their head against the wall and holler: GrowZemGrowZem BBIIGG!!!
Ashton, you seem to be hungry for education, but you do not accept to go the slow way yet in plant breeding.
I have learned to grow in the long run, since we are not allowed to use GMO in Europe.
We will prohibit all imports of AGs in a few years, and we the use of GMO in AGs in the third millennium.
Yes, and so we grow fine old Lloyd´s Giants here.

1/1/2014 7:17:27 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

You are right Ashton. You asked a legitimate question and he rest of us got diverted off track. Since my college biology classes were 40 years ago, I don't remember everything I learned. But I do know that every species has very many genes, some recessive and some dominant. Each seed from a plant will get a different combination of genes, so we are just practicing selective breeding. We grow seeds from plants or fruit that have traits we like and don't grow the ones with undesirable traits. Sometimes we get what we want, sometimes we don't. When we start crossing seeds from different genetic lines, it is still a crap shoot. All we can do is keep on breeding for what we want and hope for the best. Without the resources of a large university or the government we will never map the atlantic giant genome. And even if the genome is mapped, mutations will occur that will modify future generations. The main thing to remember is that the person who says he knows everything can't possibly know even a fraction of the total picture. Just keep on as you have been, keep asking questions, keep learning and don't give up.

1/1/2014 7:22:30 PM

Midway, UT

If you read through this thread and every time a melopumpsky post comes up and you skip it you will find a great read. If BP won't ban him then just ignore him and eventually he will go away.

1/1/2014 8:13:16 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Iowegian, you just reminded me of my old courses that I barely remember. But I do remember the term deleterious recessive alleles are not good, and leads to inbreeding depression. I'll probably get the Nobel Prize for that statement.

1/1/2014 8:36:17 PM

Eurasia

Nobody has to go away.
I´ve delivered my speech for a better new year.
How could a dictatorship (both fascistic or communist´s) ever have been broken, if nobody was allowed to address a word to the discipleship?!
Now I will be relatively quiet and only advertise a little for club growing with Lloyd´s Giants.

1/1/2014 8:40:58 PM

Omaha, Ne.

F 3.. little windy

1/1/2014 8:54:47 PM

west central IN/East central IL

Ashton become an Austrian Monk and spend your life breading AG's instead of peas.

1/1/2014 9:19:32 PM

Eurasia

Oh yes, megakin: ...fist do the Mendel patiently with good pumpkins, then discuss about breeding!
But you really do not need AGs with their tortuos genetic.
Try with serious selfmade hybrids to grow double cross hybrids, and play with recessive and dominant factors before swinging good sounding terms.

1/2/2014 8:16:53 AM

Minnesota

Your all show and no go Melo! how about some diary picts of your extpertise?? Ashton, Melo has tried to turn this posting into sarcasim, disrespect, very unprofessional. Melo, have you ever grown anything in your life? since you don't grow giant pumpkins how can you have any say in this? like you have no respect for any of us-the Wallace mafia? almost every body here would like to grow a 2009. I try and growz em bigz! ....and you don't like people who use use cannabis or drink alcohol,,,hmmmph.

1/2/2014 9:20:11 AM

Eurasia

Potheads and drunken bodies are not able to do serious breeding the whole season through.
RichardB., look around: all shit, where shit smokers work!
And that Don Young badmoughs me for knowing NO shit...
RichardB., I had a diary two years ago, and you have seen the anti-hail-netting in different fitted.
Although I don´t grow addicted for world records, I would like to show my parcels here, if I would be allowed to do it.
I´ve asked about two month ago, but they only build up hurdles.

1/2/2014 10:23:29 AM

Eurasia

RichardB., I was the only grower, who seriously answeres the question in this thread´s headline:
I´ve told here, that the distance between stem and blossom end is very simple genetically influenced and can be seen together in Mendel-style tries.
I wanted ashton to correct me. And he had the chance to find out, what I did not say yet. But in this forum is still no place for patüients talks about genetic.
Shall I explain all details?
It woud be so nice, if young people had the experience to find the solution of a riddle.
RichardB., please do you answer two simple questions:
1. How can you prove with my experiments, that the distance between stem and blossom end is dominant for short?
2. How can you prove with my experiments, that the fruit´s circumference in the middle between the ends is dominant for great/big?
Are you now able to understand the great fault in the 1068 Wallace?

1/2/2014 10:53:45 AM

Minnesota

After being one of the best seeds to grow giant pumpkins ever, you try and find a fault? A chink in its armor? if it didn't have this "fault" are you saying it could of been better? Not really, most of America is in favor of legalizing pot, even our president smoked it.

1/2/2014 11:48:38 AM

Eurasia

Growing big without any thought about the dominance of short distance between the ends (SDBE) and dominance of maximum circumscribed circle in-between (MCCIB) necessarily leads to the scallop squash shape.
AG growers might follow the Wallace stallions on this path, but they have to know about the Scallop-squash-double-dominance in botany described by Ludwig Ammer with scientifically tries of the nine years old Bertold Carl Ammer.

1/2/2014 12:49:00 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Hi all,

I just now saw this post. Looks like it has already degenerated. My suggestion, go to your "user settings" page and update it. It takes two seconds and is very effective!

Are we talking about color? Sometimes we think about color as being some sort of "on/off switch" when we think about the genetics, but what we really have is about a dozen three-position switches that all affect color. There are dominant, co-dominant, recessive, and perhaps other genes. There are various layers of skin, some of which result in the cantalouping effect.

Sometime when you can disect a salmon colored pumpkin, take a small knife and scrape off the layers of skin. You will find a white cloudy layer covering a deep red layer underneath, or perhaps you'll find something different!

Anyway, my take on it is that there is a lot we don't know and it's more complex that we realize.

1/2/2014 1:21:02 PM

Eurasia

Never wanted to reduce such a nice question to coloring only.

1/2/2014 1:52:35 PM

Western ny

ashton , why do u ask so many questions ??? or go do your school work

1/2/2014 2:57:36 PM

Piqua, Ohio

Andy, sometimes if you ask questions you learn something new.

1/2/2014 3:45:54 PM

Crossett Arkansas

Ask away Ashton, every time you ask a question a lot of us learn something new.

1/2/2014 4:03:49 PM

North Smithfield, RI

Yes ! Always keep asking .

1/3/2014 6:56:04 PM

Ontario, Canada.

"the distance between stem and blossom end is very simple genetically influenced"

Wrong.... Wrong..... Wrong.....

I have read numerous peer reviewed studies that come to the conclusion that in addition to genetics environmental factors at the time of the FS development are equally as important. Such factors greatly affect the development of xylem and phloem and the strength of the sink and certainly the length to the distal end. Referred to as hydraulic peduncle resistance.

One must also make mention of delayed senescence. Extended growth curves of the current 2009 seed line has greatly increased over the years. Is this genetic or an environmental implication of grower influence. IMHO its a combined.

For this reason growers who excel (Wallace's included) are better able to foster environment supports to build upon the true epigenetic of the AGP. Where as those folks who consider genetics as a singularity in AGP propagating are doomed to failure at the weigh-off.

1/3/2014 8:25:24 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Getting back to the original question, dominant genes, traits, will repeat themselves at least once per generation. Recessive genes do not. How does this help, not much.

1/3/2014 9:20:22 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Although it is believed by many that FS size is the exclusive mechanism of genetics. Regulating and FS partitioning are not exclusively driven by genetics.

Allocation of xylem regulation in plants and fruit remain poorly understood. However, Xylem flow or the direction and rate of flow into the plant and to the FS are determined by water potential in response to the different tissues, transpiration potential and their growth rates as driven by environmental responses.

Higher transpiration and growth rates can reduce water potential of the FS and strength of the leaf sinks as demand for xylem flow increases. Therefore, the partitioning of flow from the roots toward leaves and fruit will depend on the xylem supply concentration, as well as leaf and fruit transpiration and growth rates.

Leaves have much higher transpiration rates than fruit, which results in much higher Ca2+ content in the leaves than in the fruit. Dill rings are in fact not genetic, they are the result of xylem water deficits into the FS that lead to continuous cumulative hydraulic resistance in the peduncle, leading eventually to lower yield and flat tires as you like to call them.

Studies have shown that reducing leaf transpiration by decreasing atmospheric vapour pressure losses and using anti-desiccants or CalCarb controls the water deficit or stress and ultimately can foster larger more dense and uniformly shaped fruit.

My sources by they are located chiefly within the confines of my internal commune. I will have more to say on this at the Big Show.

1/3/2014 9:24:34 PM

Eurasia

Sorry, Bg Khn 12, all your deleberations are obsolete, ´cause I simply talk about my postulated "scallopizing dominance" (Scadom) proven with clear Mendel-tries for Cucurbita maxima.
Scadom concludes two factors: SDBE and MCCIB
The SDBE is not in force in Cucurbita moschata for the whole fruit but only for the space around the seed cavity.
To get pure breeding lines for Mendel-tries, you better do intergeneric hybridisation.

1/4/2014 9:46:44 AM

East Jordan, MI

"I will have more to say on this at the Big Show."

I'm looking forward to it!

1/4/2014 11:09:55 AM