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Whitehall Montana

Does anyone wonder how big this clone really could have gotten if left to grow to full size? I also wonder if the seeds are more aggressive because the pumpkin was removed during its most aggressive growth,or does that even play into it?

1/15/2014 11:19:29 PM

Germany

- This pumpkin was not grown on the clone plant. It was grown on a "normal" plant from a 2009 Wallace seedling and was pollinated by males from a 1725 Harp [2009 clone].

- The seeds might be less aggressive because the cotyledons might have been underdeveloped when the pumpkin had been picked.

1/16/2014 7:29:38 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

IMHO... I just think it was small because it was grown in a greenhouse, in the middle of winter, in a very short timeframe. But the genetics are world class and several growers have proven that already.

1/16/2014 10:12:29 AM

Shingle Springs, CA

Every seed is of course genetically different, but the 1985 Miller 13 has the same pedigree and got quite large (#2 for 2013 and #3 all time for official weights).

1/16/2014 10:49:56 AM

Connecticut

Slim-

Hard to say how big the pumpkin could have gotten mainly because my goal was not really weight and it was grown in a greenhouse during the winter. I did what I thought would help the plant grow and produce a pumpkin so that I could get the genetic cross that I wanted in time for the spring planting season.

Picture and information: http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=198837

Seedlings are normal with no real difference in the aggressive compared to other seedlings that I have heard of or seen.

Pumpkining has the terminology of the cross correct. Also, regarding Shew's comment, while the 1985 Miller is the same cross, the pollinator to the 220 is the actual 1725 Harp plant material that grew the 2009 Wallace. A way to think of it is that the seed from the 2009 Wallace was pollinated by the same plant that grew the 2009 Wallace. (You may have to read that twice;-)

Any other questions just let me know.

1/17/2014 1:01:03 AM

England, essex

matt the confusion of your crosses will continue,,,
just read your diary,,,335 Scherber ‘11 (F: 1421.5 Stelts [1663 Zoellner] x M: 1161 Rodonis [1725 Sweet])
now that just causes confusion???
to me it reads 1421x1161 which it is not.

1/17/2014 7:11:43 AM

Germany

Your interpretation is correct. It is 1421 x 1161. And it furthermore is specified to the most interesting details that the 1421 plant is the one which grew the 1663 Zoellner and the 1161 plant is the one which grew the 1725 Sweet. Hence, the genetics in the seeds of the 335 Clonerado Scherber is the same as it would have been if on the 1421 plant which grew the 1663 Zoellner a side vine female had been pollinated with a male from the 1161 plant which grew the 1725 Sweet.

In other words: Even though the 1421 mom (which already grew the 1663 baby) and the 1161 dad (which just for fun also grew a baby...the 1725) had died, the ovaries of the mom and the nuts of daddy have been kept alive for another year in order to make them produce another baby, the 335. Genetics are still mom and dad (from the original 1421 and 1161 plants).

1/17/2014 8:02:19 AM

Whitehall Montana

Matt Thank you for your explination,and I did read it twice.Its great that you did this clone as the seed it produced was available for spring and more affordable to more growers looking for the best genetics to grow with.We all appreciate you.Please keep up the good work as you are really helping this sport continue to grow.

1/17/2014 10:19:59 AM

Connecticut

Pumpking- Thanks for your description, as it is very well stated. (I prefer the first paragraph;-)

Slim- I appreciate the kind words, it takes a lot of work to make this happen so I am glad it can be enjoyed by all.

The nomenclature system that I have implemented is when a clone is used I use brackets for the pumpkin that it had produced. The goal is to denote the specific genetics that are being used using this sequence [weight, last name of grower, year]. This system also allows for clones to be from the same starting seed to be used but offers a way to correlate the actual pumpkin it produced.

Now in the case of the 335 Scherber it is technically a 1421.5 Stelts x 1161 Rodonis cross, but both plants were very specific. This also reduces the genetic variability by using plant material that what it produced is known. In the case of the 1421.5 Stelts plant that produced the 1663 Zoellner, there is some degree of disease resistance. The advantage of cloning this plant is it preserves these specific genetics and allows them to be incorporated into future crosses. If I was to use another 1421.5 then it may not have these specific traits.

The goal of the clones is to select for a unique set of genetics and preserve them so that potential one in a million genetics can be used first hand in more than one season and also, potentially by more than one grower.

1/17/2014 10:55:41 AM

England, essex

im not trying to diss anything here, but since when has the 1725 been a 1161?
its not even pure bred as it has 1413 werner in it,
it is what it is,,,, a 335 sherber

1/17/2014 5:33:06 PM

England, essex

scrub my last post,,,,,,,,
i didn't think both parents could be clones?

1/17/2014 5:57:46 PM

Lodi, California

Matt's crosses don't seem confusing. I believe that Matt's goal is to find the top genetics by looking for not only the top seeds, but also the biggest pumpkins grown off of these seeds. This is a great strategy to producing top genetics, and as these great seeds that Matt is producing produce very large offspring, you could simply self a clone off of that plant, or cross the clone with another clone off of another plant with similar vigour, such as done with the 335 Scherber. I think this is also why Matt is growing the 1734, as it was the largest self cross off of the 220.

1/19/2014 11:54:22 AM

Ny

I'm thrilled with what Matt has contributed to the pumpkin growing community. He's an absolute scientific genious as far as I'm concerned when it comes to growing. My guess is that there will be some real monsters grown this year with the genetics from those 220.5 seeds. The Miller pumpkin grown last summer just missed the 2,000 pound mark. It has the 1725 and 2009 genetics within its seeds too. So, I'll take the 220.5 with its genetics any day. I like the odds of something big happening. Anyway, thanks for all of your contributions Matt! I'm looking forward to hearing more about your efforts with helping to raise the chances of germination with older seeds.

1/26/2014 7:52:52 PM

Connecticut

PurplePumpkin, I really appreciate your very kind words. It is always encouraging to hear that the hard work I put in is noticed and acknowledged by others. All that I can say to you and others is you are welcome!

Also, not to be a stickler but my pumpkin was only 220.3 pounds, you gave it an extra 0.2 pounds;-)

1/26/2014 9:20:59 PM