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Fairfield, CT, 06825

Hello everyone, and genetic freaks....

BY any chance does anybody know what the pollinator of the 2323 produced??? The male in the 2323 (2009 x 2328)was the 2328DMG 2013. And Now Beni also sibbed his 2328DMG 2013 and grew his 2096. I would just love to know which of the 2328's that where grown & sibbed was the one who also pollinated the 2323 WR... Anyway you look at it the crosses are amazing, I'm just curious.

1/4/2015 12:22:40 AM

Colorado

Good question-i always assumed it was the plant that grew the 2096. He grows 3 main plants in his greenhouse in back. The others were either outside or friends plants??

1/4/2015 2:10:43 AM

Germany

On every of the three patches he starts 2 plants from the opposite sides of the patch. And he waits as long as possible ( fruitset) to decide which one is the backup and to cull the plant.
And look to post "Meier seeds" on General Discussion"
Beni wrote : "Nic: Yes the 2328 plant that produced the 2096 was the polinatorplant for the 2009 that grew the 2323."

1/4/2015 6:30:46 AM

Fairfield, CT, 06825

Thanks Benny-p. I missed that post. I cannot wait to see what theses seeds can do. 2096 has my name written all over it. I'm thinking 2009 x 2096 and reverse.

1/4/2015 11:35:21 AM

Torrance, Ca.

Just seeing 2000 X 2000 anything blows my mind! When I started just 3 years ago,,, anything 1700 to 1800 was the very top of the scale.
The weights have gone up over 500 pounds in just over 3 years,,,,,, does this mean that in as little as 5 years we may see the first 3000 pound kin?

Stop the madness! lol

Get um Nick!

1/4/2015 12:00:25 PM

Eurasia

Congrats to Benny_P for Europe´s tallest corn in Ludwigshafen 2014 (first and second place).

1/4/2015 12:30:34 PM

Germany

http://www.egvga.eu/index.php/egvga-results-2014
my 2014 corn stalks were number 20 and 21 in EGVGA 2014 ranking. Not too bad for just cutting two stalks from a field- but nothing competitive or worth mentioning.

1/4/2015 2:51:21 PM

Eurasia

Bei Crazy growers hat eine Moderatorin nur deine Ergebnisse angegeben bei der Auflistung aller Wettbewerbe.
Mir ist das ja eh lächerlich vorgekommen mit dieser Höhe von 12´, wo doch unser Nachbar vor 40 Jahren schon 13´ im normalen Feld hatte.

1/4/2015 3:07:28 PM

Netherlands

"does this mean that in as little as 5 years we may see the first 3000 pound kin?"

There has been some academic study about this. There is a limit to everything, but nobody dares to say where it is. As pumpkins reach their maximum weight, gains will likely be much, much slower per year and you will see a lot of big ones cracking under their own weight.
The pumpkin will need to be a perfect shape (with a very large base and dome shape) and have thick walls.

1/5/2015 3:57:21 AM

Eurasia

A large base is self-defeating, and that flattened dome shape is stupid.
To grow 3500# in a good shape you´ll need far more sense and upright round fruits without air in the balloon!
Your Kadurugoda style is a shame for pumpkins!

1/5/2015 8:34:04 AM

Fonda,N.Y.

Yes,..so-cal.grower...I agree 100%! I cant wait to see more 2000x2000 crosses! I myself hold high hopes for the 2096! I personally wish to try a 2000x2000 cross this year,with a reverse,&a selfed. I only grow 3plants and will try to have2000 plants with three more as backups.
This will hopefully provide three beasts if mother nature,and all other variables work in favor of this years patch!

1/5/2015 10:14:55 AM

Muddy Waters

To grow 3000 lbs they will need to get taller & still keep there width & length.So we need the breed Big tall pumpkinsback into these wide long monsters.I will grow the 2323 & use my 1317as the male to orange it back up.This should be 1 hell of a cross and hopefully come out orange.
Lets bring orange back in as the seed originated.

1/5/2015 11:14:16 AM

Eurasia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYXanUVxHC0
How do you want to breed in the color of your red necktie?

1/5/2015 1:11:58 PM

Colorado

The 2327 looks like it had height in the shoulders width and lenght.3000 lbs is prob not as many more inches as it sounds. Guessing something like 15/20 inches more each way.Anybody got a chart that goes that high. A pumpkins kind of a half sphere shape-any math gurus out there.

1/5/2015 3:58:34 PM

Torrance, Ca.

That's about right at those weights Joe.

15\20" and 10% heavy and your just about there.

All I need is 2000 more pounds and I can play too!

1/5/2015 4:49:18 PM

Mission Viejo, CA

Chris between you and me and Jim and Tom we are right at 3000 lbs. Does that count? LOL

1/5/2015 5:57:01 PM

Eurasia

How many cubic yards was the 2323.7?
Maybe four, but for 1055 kg he would have needed only 2.5 cubic yards, when he would grow a better pumpkin, which had no air in the balloon.
Nowadays growers are proud to serve a big flat tire on the pallet, but this preference will change soon with far more dense pumpkins.
This new giant fruits have to mature late in the season...
and they will be edible and storable through the winter!
Farmers will grow it and harvest pumpkins with the crane on their logging trailer.
Giant Pumpkin growing became interesting for me with the farmer Leonard Stellpflug, who grew field, squash and Giant Grey Mammoth.
I had studied agriculture in the early 1980s and worked at the forestry university at the end of the 1980s.
32 years ago my professor of soil science and plant physiology wailed that no really good breeding was done with pumpkins so far...but in America it would be possible, since people like Len Stellpflug are so engaged in their job and make much publicity for this sport.
Four years ago I could not be quiet any longer, because all went wrong with giant pumpkin growing, and no serious breeding was done in the frenzy for new records.
Only Ron Rahe did some interesting and future-oriented tries...like crossing AG onto triamble.
He did it 2008 but left seed untouched.
I motivated him to re-establish his best work with triamble-AGs, and last year he grew the 140 as a upright wheel with very good density.
I concorrently grew a 4-lober mutation of triamble squash pollinated by the edible `Pumpkin de Durban´ for a broader base to enhance weight with a two times selfed 1385.5 Jutras 07 then.
The pollinator 2323 would do the best job this year, when it would enlarge the 140 Rahe 14!
I will build up a tree low-lying on the field for farmers: my New Blue Banana (New England Blue Hubbard Squash x Jumbo Pink Banana Squash) with real hard shelled skin will be enlarged with my 1385.5 Jutras xx self.

1/5/2015 6:10:50 PM

Colorado

I just need 40 inches X 3 and I'm there.

1/5/2015 8:52:09 PM

Torrance, Ca.

That would almost make it Kevin!

lol Joe!

1/5/2015 9:24:42 PM

Rhode Island

i dont believe there will ever be a 3,000 pound pumpkin/ it just does not add up/ what you say well when you consider the ag has a growth life, that alone tells you 3,000 pounds is impossible.with that growth life you would need to have many weeks at well over 70 pounds per day. the fruit will never stand up to those daily gains.
if we make around 2,500 i would think that is the max.
pap

1/6/2015 12:27:33 PM

sevierville, Tn

We have been say there is a limit & we will slow down for the last 1000 lbs. No sign of it yet! Oak trees may not grow to the sky, but nobody is growing them like we grow pumpkins ! LOL
2014 was kind of a catchup year with alot of massive weights and the top staying the same ( 2323 vs 2328) Next year we take off again. 2400+ i believe !!

1/6/2015 12:54:36 PM

Stanwood, Washington

I think someone will be close to 3000 within 10 years. I see nothing in the structure of the fruit that indicates they wont be able to handle the extra weight. The only limiting factor as I see it is time. The key is going to be extending the growing season with Green Houses and pushing the genetics to keep up solid growth for 110-120 days.

1/6/2015 1:20:17 PM

Muddy Waters

Time will tell my friends it always does.I just hope I keep waking up on the right side of the dirt to see it someday.If not my family has been given instructions to put me in the compost pile & grow a world record pumpkin named BUBBA!!lol

Then and only then I can say I gave it everything I have.LOL

1/6/2015 1:37:01 PM

Ireland

I believe we will see 2,500 lbs nest year.
Micheál

1/6/2015 2:42:35 PM

Wixom MI.

Im with captain 97 i think if we extend the growing season in greenhouses, starting in march or april, i think that we can reach 3000 lbs.in a way we have been doing this all along allready. When pumpkins were only 1000 lbs, their peek growth rate was only 3-4 weeks, now its closer to 4-6 weeks of peek weigh gain.

1/6/2015 2:48:52 PM

President - GPC

WallaceWOW....just sayin....

1/6/2015 4:08:11 PM

Rhode Island

i agree, a greenhouse of some sort being used early ,late season plus during extensive rain,cold,etc, will help however, even in a greenhouse while the plant may keep growing indefinately, the fruit still has a life cycle that nothing can change.
pap

1/6/2015 4:15:34 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

What's crazy is that we haven't even slowed down the gains yet. I would expect a few years of only increasing the record by 20 pounds, then five years of 10 pounds each, some years no new record, then 5 pounds, etc. It has to end sometime, but there is no sign of it yet!

1/6/2015 6:39:25 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

a pumpkin taping 2323 @ 30% heavy..........
genetics + full potential = WOW

1/6/2015 9:43:11 PM

Netherlands

A group of US scientists did (crush) tests with pumpkins and other giant vegetables in a university lab a few years ago. Depending on what type of giant veg you grow (root crop, hanging, on the ground), each giant veg will change their shape as gravity sets in.

For pumpkins it was necessary for the base to be as big as possible to support the weight. A smaller base would receive too much weight per square inch and not support the weight.

A dome shape is the most sound structure known to mankind and people figured that out in the Middle Ages. It will not crack under extreme pressure, in comparison to a flat, tall or pointed structures.

1/7/2015 3:55:44 AM

Eurasia

For a professional grower like Beni and me it´s very easy to make a fruit heavy with physiological tricks.
And, because I did not want to do that sport, I always refused to compete at weighings of the GPC.
I grew my 612/14 outdoor even without seaweed or fish... only to have a pollinator for smaller edibles with a selfed 1385.5 Jutras 07.
Other edibles I pollinated with a prolonged world record out of the old millenium: the 935 Lloyd 97.
As professional growers we should not compete with GPC-heroes.
Think about, Beni!

1/7/2015 4:00:34 AM

Netherlands

"What's crazy is that we haven't even slowed down the gains yet."

Actually we have. You just need to compare gains per region.

In the USA we have only seen increases of 25lbs per year for the last few years (2009 - 2032 - 2058).
In Canada they have maxed out (1818 - 1811 - 1813 - 1675).
Europe is new territory so results have really jumped but the last two years Beni has grown (2328 - 2323).
Based on these results, I would not expect too much of a jump next year.

1/7/2015 4:03:35 AM

Germany

Mr. Ammer, you are definitely not a professional grower and its absolutly ridiculous if you think you are on one level with Beni Meier- as grower and as person.

1/7/2015 4:27:46 AM

Rhode Island

thank you for saying what we all are thinking benny.
pap the pope

1/7/2015 7:56:51 AM

New England

don't feed the troll ;)

1/7/2015 9:24:04 AM

New England

as more growers use greenhouses expect the gains to jump again per region. Beni grows in a green house and many growers don't but those that do will see bigger gains. any control in environment will only help as weather and temperature and water is such major factors in growth. All of us growing outside are still praying to the God's every season

1/7/2015 9:28:18 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

Is this another situation where I'm not reading something that I have blocked? Never mind.

Back on the increase... the overall world record still seems to be hopping, to me. No analysis... so maybe I'm deceived. But whatever region has the best weather that year is still crushing it.

Maybe it's because we seem to have skipped the 2100's and 2200's and went straight to the 2300's! Seems like crushing it to me!

1/7/2015 10:35:52 AM

Whitehall Montana

Maybe we need to visit plant size again.We might be at that point where increased plant size may give us more gains in over all weight.One thing I have noticed is gains in personal bests as great genetics and better grow product have become more available

1/7/2015 10:44:24 AM

Wixom MI.

I have a question ? When do the growers in napa plant their plants and pollinate their punpkins ?and the same with beni.when does he plant his plants and fist pollination of a pumpkin ? Are they both starting earlyer than most of us allready ? I have never heard of when beni starts !

1/7/2015 1:37:33 PM

Eurasia

Mr. Preis, as a mostly professionalized breeder I must not cry the cheer of triumph for bad vegetable.
Mr. Preis, you should know, that too much water in vegetable means bad vegetable.
American giant growers can quarrel with me about that, but why should I talk to Mr. Preis or Mr. Wagler further on?
These German sycophants here at bp...
You really are not anywhere near a breeder, Mr. Preis.

1/7/2015 1:51:58 PM

Eurasia

Alas!
Mr. Preis, a few years ago Beni Meier offered me, that he would always give me his seed for free... but i never wanted his seed!
We only had contact through Jucker-farm and i never wanted to talk to such a swashbuckler anymore.
Please accept, that I come from serious farming and vegetable breeding and that i do not like people to grow water-sucked trash like your giant pumpkins.
I have scientifically founded knowledge from soil science and plant physiology since the early 1980s and did plant breeding since my childhood in the 1970s...oh, since the late 1960s! Beni Meier shows you breeding methods, I have tutored for so long, but he is a bad grower...a grower, who produces trash vegetable...and that´s against our professional ethics.
I thank you, Mr. Preis, for stark off that gp-squalor.

1/7/2015 2:19:14 PM

norway , maine

Alas !
Mr.Lughead should find a new site on which to troll

1/7/2015 3:04:34 PM

Luskville Quebec Canada

what a ***k**g egocentric weirdo ????

1/7/2015 4:39:00 PM

Luskville Quebec Canada

You grow your white asparagus , we will take care of the giants.

1/7/2015 4:45:19 PM

Mission Viejo, CA

Its always funny to read a thread where someone on your ignore list is commenting. There are these gaps in conversation followed by the usual reaction. I LOVE the ignore list.

1/7/2015 5:00:17 PM

Minnesota

Mr. Ahmer is nuts, you think you know him and he starts talking crazy! Got him on my ignore list! A very selective listener!

1/7/2015 6:21:03 PM

Fairfield, CT, 06825

Greenhouses are the key to 2500 +lbs. You can control everything and even use artificial lights (1000 Watt lights will lardge ballasts), 5 per plant/750sqft IMHOP, This will help increase the start of you season as well as keep them growing a lot longer. Also the % Heavy is going to have to play a a big role in our hopefully never ending, ceilingless sport. Rapid growth genetics (2009, 2032, 1725, and many more to come) types with more well known % HEAVY genetics in the crosses, etc (1495 Stelts/1488 Marsh) style genetics in seed selections we grow and where we grow them. But a greenhouse is a major factor. "Good Seed, Good Soil, Good Greenhouse & Control of everything" then maybe some good luck.

1/7/2015 10:55:42 PM

Lebanon, Oregon

I have been only growing for a couple of years and love this hobby that I can do in my back yard! Reached over 1000lbs on my 2nd weigh off. Split last year. I think you are right about greenhouses being the key for heavier AG's in the future. Much more control vs weather, etc. Up until this year I thought everyone would have a chance for a record but if greenhouses are the key, I'm sure I speak for many, it is too expensive for the average backyard Joe. I spend a lot on ammendments as is. In a few years it may just come down to a cluster of a few big greenhouse growers that are able push the limit on growth. So I will focus on the soil, genetics, and luck to try to break my personal best! I am still a novice, and don't get me wrong, I look around for the best genetics for myself like everyone else, but there seems too much emphasis on this. I equally looking for the best techniques to push my genetics my garden. Reminds me of a beginner in golf thinking his game would really improve if he purchased the most expensive clubs! Cheers! I enjoy reading and learning, and being entertained from all your posts. Rick

1/8/2015 12:11:28 AM

Netherlands

Just remember that greenhouse growing has serious drawbacks. One of the major ones is heat. As soon as the sun shines and it's more than 60 degrees outside, you are toast inside.
Our summer average high is about 68, but even then it goes above 100 in the greenhouse. Fans will help a bit, but not enough and they will dry out your soil and invite certain guests you don't want.
So for most growers, greenhouses will not be a solution unless you are capable of retracting the plastic completely when necessary.

1/8/2015 4:19:02 AM

Nottingham, UK

A polytunnel can be made on a budget.

Due to weather in my region of the UK the largest plant I can grow is around 350 sq ft. I am in the process of building a 336 sq ft tunnel within a 500-600 sq ft patch.

Now, such a tunnel would cost me anything up to £1500 if ordered through a professional company and even at this price it's a self construction process.

The hoops and cover are the biggest outlay but by doing it yourself you can save tons on fitting and accessories, side ventilation and general internal support structures.
I am pretty sure I can construct mine to a budget of £500-600 and will document it for anyone that's interested:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryView.asp?season=2015&grower=55348&action=L

If still out of budget then possible acquire the materials over the course of the year and put it together when you can, possibly 2016

1/8/2015 8:44:43 AM

Bethlehem CT

Greenhouses are not the only way to grow. I have been in this hobby long enough to see opinions sway back and forth. Back about 7 years ago everybody thought Rhode Island's climate was the best for growing. Before that it was the Pacific Northwest. Now I am hearing that the Napa Valley, or anyone who has a greenhouse will be the only ones who can compete.
I believe if you are a gifted observant grower, You can compete. Whether you are Phil Hunt in Canada, Ron Wallace in Rhode Island, Scott Steill in Minnesota, Pete Glasier in CA, or over in Europe Like the Paton Brothers or Beni Meiers. Their are dozens and dozens of elite growers around the world, in so many different climates. All of them have the potential to break the world record.
Nature is incredibly complex, There are so many relationships that are involved, many are still unknown to us. Some day we may know so much about AG's, that a totally artificial environment will be the best way to grow. I wouldn't bet on it though.

1/8/2015 9:12:52 AM

Whitehall Montana

Not sure everyone needs a greenhouse.There are a lot of folks that have a pretty good climate and a lot that don't.For those that don't a greenhouse is a nice way to go.Not everyone can afford a greenhouse but there is portables that are more affordable.Here in southwest Montana we can get snow up until June 1 and it wont get 90 degrees until July1.The night time temps range from 38 - 50 degrees and Sept we get frost.In my case I have a portable greenhouse and would not be able to grow anything of size without it.I know its my choice to grow pumpkins but I have fun at it and right now I will continue to grow.Folks with steady,consistant weather that are in those sweet spots don't really need the help of a greenhouse.

1/8/2015 10:11:48 AM

Muddy Waters

If I were in northern Califorina I most likely wouldnt use a greenhose/screenhouse.The Screenhouse for me keeps the bugs out,Which means no spraying = longer plant life keeping the leafs young.You can keep a screnhouse cooler as it has a shading effect which in turn is cooler inside then out,but captures the heat at night.The plastic is only pulled over on cold nights.I dont think most really understand the Screenhouse.lots of misconceptions.On a perfect summer it wouldnt be needed except for wind hail & bug protection.If you get the perfect summer you can grow a 2400/2500 lber outside.Everyone is still in the race as far as I am concerened.To many folks looking for the perfect seed.They should be making the perfect soil & feeding program.

1/8/2015 10:41:48 AM

The North Coast

I feel that there is no end in sight. Screw greenhouses. Give me a wearhouse and I could eliminate most negative variables. No sun needed, just 440 and 660 mm LED lights. Talk about being able to manipulate the season. It won't be long and someone will go all indoors.

1/8/2015 11:59:00 AM

Colorado

Remember a greenhouse is most effective where its too cool otherwise. If you live in a area with hot summers youre going to not want plastic on them for the hot part of the season.I figure if somebody like a steil,stevens,companion,wolf puts up a couple big greenhouses(in their northern location) watch out.

1/8/2015 12:15:24 PM

Wixom MI.

If anyone is interested crazy growers sent me the information on the growth rate on beni merier 2323. I posted it in my diary, its the first post on jan 8 i wrote bown the day it was planted day pollinated, weights from day 30 to day 82 when he harvested it. The weekley gains and 5 day averages.

1/8/2015 3:32:04 PM

Torrance, Ca.

I just looked at those numbers Chris,,,,,,,,, how the heck some of these guys have gains like that on day 50, 60 and 70 blows my mind!

1/8/2015 4:25:49 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

its called roid rage....lol

1/8/2015 4:30:12 PM

Radda in Chianti (SI) Italy

Hi all. Chris, the gowth chart you posted in your diary is about 2328 Meier 2012 and not about the 2323.
in my opinion, there is no way to be competitive without the greenhouse even in climates with maximum temperatures of 95-100 F. The greenhouse can give advantages and disadvantages as you said. It 's all in the hands of the farmer. This is my experience.

1/8/2015 4:32:33 PM

Muddy Waters

Batcave a warehouse is greenhouse.When it comes to growing your electric bill will be 3 grand a month.lol

1/8/2015 5:03:21 PM

Muddy Waters

This is where you guys are missing the bus.A greenhouse/screen house can also be used to provide shade & hang misters.This makes a 100 degree day cooler.

1/8/2015 5:05:45 PM

Wixom MI.

You my be right about that 2328 this was from crazy growers seminar last spring with beni speaking. Many pictures of the seminar was sent but written in german whitch i can not read myself. From the pictures i saw, it looked what bubba and many growers here do is maybee a bug screen and removable plastic used only when needed. If i can post the pictures in my diary,i will do so and let everyone know. It may be tonight or tomarrow.

1/8/2015 5:18:56 PM

Colorado

Out west the professional greenhouses use swamp coolers to keep temps dowm. Very Effective but thats also a big expense in addition to the greenhouse itself,plastic ,shade cloth,screen etc.Im going to stay old school and just wine about big pumpkins grown indoors.

1/8/2015 5:35:59 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Lol joe!

Me too!

Going to have fun though and do the best I can with what I have...

1/8/2015 5:47:32 PM

Wixom MI.

I just loaded the beni meier seminar pictures in my diary so it may take a few hours before ken gets them up.

1/8/2015 6:04:45 PM

Wixom MI.

It looks to me that beni has a bug screen covering his house just like bubba does !!!

1/8/2015 8:22:05 PM

Germany

The growth rate posted have the wrong headline, 2328 instead of 2323. And the sharp decline in gains was probably by the BES end August/ start september. Normally he keeps them growing until harvest ;-)
Beni has definitly a plastic film on his greenhouse, no screen.

1/9/2015 4:08:49 AM

Central Illinois

If someone would do the number crunching, how much would it have weighed if left to grow to zero gains per day.

1/9/2015 8:32:47 AM

Netherlands

Theoretically it could have put on about 40-50 lbs, so you might come up with about 2380lbs.
That's theoretically because we don't know what effect the split had on growth rates. Perhaps none, perhaps some. In any case there wouldn't be enormous gains after day 82. With those numbers I'd expect the next 4-day average gain of about 6lbs/day followed by a 4-day average of 3lbs and a few loose lbs here and there till day 95 or thereabouts. If we really push it, 2400 lbs.

1/9/2015 10:25:10 AM

Wixom MI.

one thing that im noticing is i beleive the that some of our growers are acheiving 1186 day 45 on aug 4, but i think that beni has sustained these weight gains of 30 pluss a day, longer than other growers have ???

1/9/2015 12:10:16 PM

Wixom MI.

in some of the mid season pictures it looks like irrigation lines hanging from the celing ! im guessing that may be how he foiler feeds them ???

1/9/2015 12:16:15 PM

Fairfield, CT, 06825

Greenhouse is the way to go. You can always open the sides to ventilate like Jos does, also you can use high plowered ventilation fans to creat a convection current in the greenhouse and regulate temp. Plus Floiar Co2 works better in a contained climate, And not to mention control things like: the surges of rain fall and hail other growers experience. Control everything!!!! If I had the space and $ its the the way I would go. Plus, somone commented on the irrigation lines above the plants... This could be mist cooling as well as a way to foliar then use other methods to drench in! I need a 30 x 60 Greenhouse x 2. SOME DAY!!!!!

1/9/2015 7:11:04 PM