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LOL... Did that get you excited or what? The idea of a new AGGC, one that everyone could view and use would be exciting to me. I know a ton of effort went into the current database and I do appreciate it and respect it but I can’t use it. I know there are many other growers out there in the same position and I hope you will post your comments here. I just hate to see such a valuable resource only be accessible to a select few, especially when I am not one of them. ROFLOL! See IM trying to keep this subject light and am not trying to start another off-season war. It is just my opinion that this topic deserves a little mention and maybe its time to put a little pressure on the operator(s) to allow more members. Im sure it’s a matter of time but I think its time to make time.

Join the AGGC

The AGGC is not accepting new members at this time. Due to the highly statistical nature of its contents, this site is intended only for the serious and experienced grower.

Present members may of course renew their memberships and should email me for more information.


With that quote from the AGGC I would like to mention that I was a member and enjoyed it almost daily. I then changed and lost my password and was unable to get assistance from the AGGC to gain my access again. In the last 4 months I have sent numerous e-mails to Mike N. at different addresses and still no reply.

Looking forward to everyone’s opinions!

Mike Frantz (former AGGC member)

2/5/2004 7:51:57 PM

Spokane, WA

I had the same problem. My e-mails were not getting through. Finally I wrote a letter and it worked. Maybe a polite simple hand written note is the ticket in.

But please consider Mike to. Hopefully everyone doesn't read this and swamp him with letters. (he's only one guy ya know.)Maybe I should shut up now before I get myself in trouble.
Adam

2/5/2004 9:22:08 PM

Indiana

Well Mike,
There are many ways to protest. I do not know how many members there are, but I know some of them are not very serious....LOL I personally did not use the AGGC anymore for hard information. My membership ran out Dec 31.

If you have a problem with the current policy, dont turn in your fruit or give the info to someone that will. With such a select group the data will be minimal, and obselete within a few years.

Where there is a will, there is a way.....Better options to come I would guess........

Tom Beachy

2/6/2004 12:12:29 AM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

I think he's in a catch-22 situation. His database is not robust enough to support the traffic that I'm sure he didn't expect when he set this up. In order to upgrade to a better database would cost him a lot of money, which he would not be able to recoup with the existing membership base.

If you recall awhile back he took a survey to see what everyone thought of expanding the site into more of a pumpkin internet portal and organization complete with newsletter, etc. I'm guessing that he was at the crossroads of whether to take the next financial step or not, and the growers said "No"

So now he is in a lose-lose situation where if he lets everyone in, the performance would be crippling for the users and the users will be unhappy and leave, and if he doesn't let everyone in, the quality of the data will degrade and the users will be unhappy and leave.

I could be way off the mark here, I'm a relatively new grower, but I don't get the impression that his actions have any malice whatsoever. He is just navigating difficult waters with limited resources and a good heart. Instead of criticizing, we should be offering to help.

2/6/2004 1:18:30 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I have been a member of AGGC for the last few years. I have never had a problem with mike who runs it. I could send him a e-mail to ask him a question( Just as I'm writing this) and he will send me a answer back tomorrow. I guess I'm stumped as to why some guys are having problems. Mike, did you try writing a Mike a letter and sending it by US mail to his home address? I know the member ship has gone up to $10.00. But I think it's even worth $20.00 for a year

2/6/2004 2:56:34 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

I don't think the situation is as bleak for the AGGC as people here are alluding to.
The database is awesome but will never be the begin-all or end-all of pumpkin information since many growers don't even have computers or email even, let alone know of the aggc.

Everyone wanting information on the background of listed aggc pumpkins simply has to ask here at bp and the information is usually immediately distributed by someone who is a member of the aggc.

Mike has never been against anyone giving this kind of help to my knowlege and this tells me that he really cares about all growers.

IF a person wants information from the aggc database I think they should be willing to support Mike with any donation he wants. The poor bugger has been footing the bill for years mostly out of his own pocket thus far.

Just my two cents and I don't mean to offend anyone.
I just don't personally have the years of time it would take to amass the same level of data on pumpkins that Mike did and offer it as a free service to pumpkin mankind.
If someone else does, then more power to them...

It's been about 16 degrees celcius here lately so it's hard not to think of starting some plants...ha ha!
Michel

2/6/2004 3:18:35 AM

Norton, MA

Hey Mike. I can't get on AGGC either. I say go for it. Alex.

2/6/2004 6:19:27 AM

Calif

Sounds like there is an opening! write and get on the waiting list.

2/6/2004 11:52:13 AM

Eugene, OR

Michel,

Some wanna be whistle blower emailed Mike and accused me of copying and pasting info from the AGGC to this site which is of course just not true. I simply looked the info up on a certain seed and gave the person the info they requested by typing it up like everyone else. I didn't think there was a problem with it, as I've seen just about everyone with AGGC access do the same thing but for some reason it wasn't acceptable for me to do it. The self appointed rent-a-cop who emailed Mike either just doesn't like me or has too much time on their hands. Either way, I won't be helping others with genetics info for fear of losing my membership. Just a word of warning to everyone else who does the same thing I did. No good deed goes unpunished!

I totally respect all the hard work Mike has put into the site and I seriously doubt he's excluding people for any reason other than a shortage of time and money to keep it up and running.

2/6/2004 3:19:59 PM

Calif

Mike ---be sure to catch the seed summary on the mallorn list.

2/6/2004 9:49:32 PM

Calif

Mike ---be sure to catch the seed summary on the mallorn list.

2/6/2004 9:50:11 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

Brian,
I'm not worried about losing my aggc membership and you shouldn't be either. Just never share your login info!
If everyone that shares aggc info with other growers who really are interested in the info gets kicked out of the aggc then there would be no members left.

The whole point of the aggc is to accumulate the data so that serious growers can use it to make better crosses with educated guesses.

The reason Mike doesn't allow just everyone to join the site is that he really cares first and foremost about the quality of his data. Let's face the facts here, many new growers don't even know that you have to protect both the male and female flowers prior to pollination for example.
How many false entries that should be listed as open pollinated pumpkins instead of false crosses would be in the database?

Personally I love looking at the data on pumpkins at the aggc but what's most important for me is just to improve my soil and to keep bettering myself each year. I've totally failed as a grower so far growing a 513 from the 845Bobier00 and a 595 from the 582Hester so laugh all that will...It's only pumpkin growing, not the end of the world.
Michel

2/7/2004 4:15:09 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I'm not trying to make excuses for Mike. Nor am I bashing anyone who is frustrated by the current AGGC "no new members" thing. I'd be frustrated too.

I'm not sure if this is correct or not, so don't take this to the bank. This is all speculative since I've never set up nor run a website. But my employer does & I can tell you it cost us a fortune to set up & run.

As BigPumpkins.com became more popular it was in danger of crashing (& did sometimes). Ken & John were allowed to "borrow" extra band width service (could be the wrong term) from their employer. Yet most website owners would have to pay companies (like J & K's employer) for extra server access. That's why BP is free of pop-ups, subsciber fees, & banner ads. We are all VERY LUCKY that John & Ken work for such a generous employer. For virtually every other website in the world, operation costs have to be paid for by the visitors or they will just go away. No money. No server access. The money can come from a subsciber fee or advertisers. Mike does what he can with the measly $10 he charges us. My employer budgets the website in our marketing budget since it is expected to increase sales. But neither Mike nor J & K have anything to sell.

continued

2/7/2004 8:31:16 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

We all spend a fair amount of money on this hobby/sport. But according to the AGGC member list, there are now less than 300 paid subscribers. So maybe there are what?....1000 competitive growers worldwide? Maybe 2000? Ken & John probably have a fair idea based on number of "cookies issued" & return visitor frequency. Maybe they'll chime in? But a lot of the website hits are "lurkers" who not only don't post, they also don't grow. The some grow & don't post. Who knows? I doubt it's much higher than this guess at any rate.

If my guess is even close, then we hardly make for the "advertiser sink" that influences "advertiser revenue source" to pay for high end website features & usership.

Personally I think Mike has achieved an amazing website & deserves credit for what he has done. Not bashing for what he cannot do.

Patience Grasshoppers! LOL

Just my $.03

Steve

2/7/2004 8:31:28 AM

Norton, MA

I talked to Ken and John a few weeks ago and they told me that they currently have around 7500 users. WOW.

2/7/2004 5:47:15 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

My understanding is Mike had problems adding new members, only to have them grow for a year and quit. The site is meant for long time growers [yeah, I know there a a couple that still have yet to grow a fruit}, and those who apply usually get in when he adds new members. I understand both sides here, and hope those who can access the info will take time to help some of those who can't. I've been going to far lengths myself to help newer growers, as that goes with the title of being an 'old timer'...lol! I've probably spent too many winter hours in there, but I'd have to say what all I've learned since 99 is pretty much priceless, and if I had to get back in line and wait to get in again, I'd do that in a heartbeat.
Madman Marc

2/8/2004 2:04:50 AM

ontario

Mikes great...simple......AGGC is a very valuable tool.....cut him some slack, I am sure he has his reasons.

2/8/2004 8:27:03 AM

Montoursville, PA

Mike is in a position to further receive real dollars for his efforts if he chooses. He could go to publishing CD's and selling them. He could close the site and sell hard copy. There 'aint no free lunch and Mike has earned his right to fair pay or other major recognition for taking it this far.

Mike has 300 members at $10.00 maybe. That is totally unrealistic in return for the value of the data.

Last time I checked it would cost about a thousand bucks for a four day seminar with the leading teachers in any field. My goodness four days of sports seminar coaching runs upwards of a thousand bucks. The finest book and only recent pumpkin book trades at $25.00 and may not contain this valued data.

If Mike had 300 members willing to pay $300 a year he just maybe would be able to quit his regular job and give full time to the challenge. Let's see now. That would be $50,000 for the boss and $40,000 for the site. Still not enough to enable staff. Mercy....Maybe he should charge a little more.

I'd like to go there too. I'm satisified to wait and see what decisions the present opportunity and success nuture.

2/8/2004 11:26:46 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Three Hundred!?!? Yikes! Coffee table books run $30-$50.

I'd gladly pay that since it's a resouce that never get's dated like books often do.

The key I think is to raise the rate up to the point where it prevents casual subscribers who won't contribute. But serious folks can still fly under the radar of their significant others. LOL

2/8/2004 12:29:49 PM