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Cologne / Germany

A lot of discussion about freezing seeds or store them in the fridge or whereever it´s dark and cool. My freezer is around -13 F throughout the year. Fridge is 45 F. A big difference. All other seed packages (veggies) say "store cool and dry and in provided axenic package", no suggestion to freeze them.
Any ideas on this subject?

2/13/2004 12:12:57 PM

Edmonton, Canada

I just store mine in a dresser which is at room temperature. I make sure to keep them dry, but other than that, I don't do anything special. My germination percentage is very good, so I don't think freezing them is neccesary.

2/13/2004 12:24:23 PM

Commack, NY

I keep my seeds in sealed mason jars. In each jar is a dessicant packet to keep moisture out. Ive been storing them at room temperature, but now i have a crawl space that is considerably cooler and darker, so that's where they'll be.
Scott

2/13/2004 1:45:23 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I keep mine in the freezer. The old guy next door says he has had garden vegtable seeds in his freezer for 5-6 years and they come up every year when he plants them

2/13/2004 4:01:30 PM

Montoursville, PA

We fish a lot. There is a worm and grub fridge into which my Tupperware Boxes holding my seed go. The temperature is about 40 degrees give of take a few degrees.

2/13/2004 8:55:17 PM

Wisconsin

I'm not the expert, but from hort seed I've learned that if you do freeze use a deep freeze not a self-defrosting type.....apparently the auto defrost cycle has warm temp swings that are harder on the seeds than anything else. Get'em cool and keep'em cool or keep'em at room temp!

2/13/2004 11:31:27 PM

Amherst, WI

I built a root cellar in the basement. I store seeds in there with ziplock bags. Dessicant packs in the bags help control moisture. It is 40 to 58 degrees year round in there. It's also a good place to keep a case of beer.

2/14/2004 9:44:23 AM

Wichita, KS

I carry my seeds with me everywhere I go, and pass them out to people (@ the airport, @ the post office, @ the DMV, etc) as I convert them into AG growers.

...Geeze. I'm starting to act like a cult leader. lol

2/17/2004 2:14:41 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

Pumpkin seeds are larger than most seeds and will retain a certain amount of moisture and "oil" even after drying. Although freezing may be best for most seeds, freezing tempuratures can actually harm the embriotic material of a pumpkin seed if frozen. For optimum "indefinite" storage, pumpkin seeds, especially of the large AG variety do best between 35 - 40 degrees. So, to answer your question...fridge. I would also put them in a sealed container with a dessicant packet. BF

2/17/2004 2:48:13 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

PS. If your seed storage goals are not so lofty(shelflife-wise) a cool dry place is adequate. BF

2/17/2004 2:52:22 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Aw hogwash...I freeze mine and they sprout just fine. Any vegetable seed has some moisture and oil and old-timers have been freezing for decades. They last longer.

2/17/2004 3:19:35 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

Sorry Kyle, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. You and your "old timers" I'm sorry to say, prove nothing more. For "optimum" indefinite storage, biology speaks even louder than you Kyle. BF

2/17/2004 4:28:18 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Well Brian, your moisture and oil idea ain't nothing fascinating either pal. ALL seeds contain moisture, and ALL seed pulp contain oil. That's common sense or the seed wouldn't be a living being and couldn't create a plant...inert until planted maybe, but living nonetheless.
If you'd like, I could surf the Internet to refind articles I read last year, and the year before, that plainly state freezing lengthens the viability of germination life.
It's a reproduction of nature..the Winter freeze and Spring germination thing ya' know? If freezing was so bad then there'd be a natural yearly crisis of natural borne seed that didn't pop every Spring now wouldn't there? I haven't heard of any type seed on, or in, the ground way up North that sat in a dry 35-40 degree climate outside all winter.

2/17/2004 5:11:48 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Course I'm wasting my breath....I freeze, Brian don't.
Who cares right?

2/17/2004 5:13:09 PM

Eugene, OR

Hey Kyle...what are you talking about? I freeze! :-)

I had always thought freezing was better than in the fridge as well but reading this thread makes me question it. It seems to me that a dry environment like that found in a freezer would be much better than the 40 degree moist environment one would find in a fridge. Less of a chance of rot, mildew, etc. if stored in dry air. That whole winter-freeze spring-thaw thing come to mind as well.

Any other opinions on this?

Brian

2/17/2004 5:23:10 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

In 10 minutes of surfing I found about 25 different articles about seed storage.
I found pro-freezing articles, I found a couple that said to never do it. I found articles that said every 5 degree Celsius drop in temp doubles the seed life and I found arrticles that said noooo, that's too much.
They ALL agree however that 2 things are important:
#1. Moisture levels within the seed should be low ie;dry them good
#2. Storing in heat is bad
So, no matter what you believe, at least follow those 2 rules and you should do fine.

2/17/2004 5:30:47 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

BTW Brian...then why did you say "fridge" above ya' looney? That South Carolina heat is gettin' to you man.

2/17/2004 5:32:49 PM

Eugene, OR

Two Brian's here Kyle...LOL. Probably more than two actually.

BTW, get the seeds I sent you?

2/17/2004 5:39:07 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Yep, I got 'em, thanks.
Now I'm confused...Yo! Where you at you dirty "snake"?

2/17/2004 5:46:00 PM

Tipp City, Ohio

Containers of seeds were found in the Egyptian Pyramids to be over 2,000 years old. Of course only a small amount germinated but they did grow. Guess what? No frig or freezer. Just a dry climate.

A seeds worst or best friend is moisture depending on what you want to do with it; grow it or store it.

2/17/2004 8:33:47 PM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

I vacuum seal and freeze.

2/17/2004 11:00:41 PM

Indiana

I say optimum storage is IN ice........

Tom Beachy

2/17/2004 11:26:28 PM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

I will volunteer for an experiment to determine which is better, dry air, refrigerator, or freezer. Somebody send me 3 898 Knauss seeds and I will try each of them using one of the methods.

2/18/2004 12:49:56 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I wonder if liquid Nitrogen would be too cold.

2/18/2004 8:22:37 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

Here's the deal folks/Kyle, there are a couple different variables at work here. First, we are dealing with "pumpkin" seeds...not just "seeds". Pumpkin seeds are larger and there in lies the difference...or at least the biggest difference. I'm assuming that most out there know, or at least have heard, the bigger the seed, the shorter the shelf life. This is true, not just something "uncle bubba" said looking back on his conquests. My remarking(Kyle) on the moisture and oil thing wasn't meant to be as much of a revelation as just an explanation.
Another variable at work here is "optimum" shelflife. Not "sufficient" or "adequate" which is the mother nature's way(and a good way at that). Optimum is the "best" given all circumstances. And, since I don't know of too many AG pumpkin growers out there with a freezer than will produce -459.67F, "absolute zero", a state where there is zero molecular movement and therefore no stress, optimum shelflife for our pumpkin seeds would be between 35 - 40 degrees.
Of course any temperature is almost meaningless if there is still moisture prevalent in the seed's micro-climate. That is why I recommend using dessicant packs.
PS. Not trying to "sell" anyone here, just providing info and an answer for "floh".

2/18/2004 11:15:05 AM

Commack, NY

I have a beachy cross that Tom made last year that is from a 1991 seed.....pretty impressive id say.

2/18/2004 1:16:26 PM

Eugene, OR

Interesting topic. I'm not debating any method over another....simply trying to understand the reasoning behind the fridge over freezer preference. Why, IF absolute zero would be the "best" condition in which to store a seed, is a temperature of 40 degrees F better for the seed than a colder temperature? I have no idea if molecular activity effects the shelf life of a seed so I don't even know if 0 degrees Kelvin would be the best temp in which to store a seed.

The colder the temp, the less likely there is to be any moisture in the air. The easiest way to remove excess moisture from the air is to cool it to a very low temp. The moisture condenses, thus "drying" the air. Seems to me that the colder the better....which is why probably why I freze. As long as they last 4 or 5 years, I would say that's good enough for me.

Just as an aside, 0 degrees Kelvin or -459.67 deg F has yet to be reached by nature or mankind. We've come within a few billionths of a degree in a laboratory setting, but not quite. Pretty COOL concept though.

Brian

2/18/2004 1:28:21 PM

northern indiana

If wheat seeds from one of the Egyptian toombs can sprout after a couple thousand years, I would guess that the cool, dark and dry is best. Freezing with any moisture content will cause some dammage as the water expands, (crystallizes or whatever you like to call it) and breaks cell walls. I would also guess that given the high humidity in the fridge the most important thing would be an air tight container and dry seeds. I would also guess that not all of the testing done on seed storage was done in the same way. Different containers, moisture content, numbers of seeds, temps, ect. Any of these factors could skew the results, furthermore not all seeds are created equall and I doubt all seeds will respond to the same type of storage in the same way. Not that I am anywhere near being a pro or anything I just call 'em like i see 'em.
Eric

2/19/2004 8:16:58 PM