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New Hampshire

In my pursuit of searching genetic generational patterns of over the chart pumpkin, I have discovered that there is no rhyme or reason. In many if not most cases heavy (thick-walled) pumpkins come from light ancestors and vise versa. In nature there is always exception to the norm but there seems to be no norm here. I would be willing to hear some Imperial proof to disprove my findings. I would love to believe that there is something more to this than just a crapshoot.

2/18/2004 7:55:30 PM

New Hampshire

Steveman, I am not responding to your post. Just happened to post on a similar topic at the same time.

2/18/2004 7:58:16 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

I conducted a similar study and came up with the same results.

There are VERY FEW patterns that emerge when analyzing the data.

One for instance, a few growers that consistently have heavy fruit. The Houghtons come to mind for one. I would attribute this to their growing practices - more specifically their soil chemistry.


Kyle has some good info on this subject as well. Maybe he will share some insights.

2/18/2004 8:19:04 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

This is what I have researched and found to be the top 25 producers of heavy OTC progeny, up to 2002. I set a requirement of at least 6 progeny as I felt that number was the minimum amount of offspring to demonstrate consistency.
I spent *alot* of time looking into this and believe it to be quite accurate as long as the 6 progeny rule is applied.
1260 Weir
1058 Houghton
730 Stellpflug
898 Knauss
727 Greer
865 Mettler
805 Pukos
1337 Houghton
1097 Beachy
995 Carter
895.5* Hester
1020 Kuhn
695 Handy
810 McInnis
708 LaRue
1092 Burke
869.5 Calai
935 Lloyd
810 Handy
790 Daletas
996.5 Emmons
815 Checkon
780 Eaton
1075 Daletas
859 Mombert
611.5 Hester

2/18/2004 8:54:02 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

BTW...these are not pumpkins that produced the largest weights, it's the pumpkins that consistently throw heavy OTC progeny when comparing actual weight to OTT measurements.

2/18/2004 8:56:52 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Kyle, you got that right about the 1260 Weir. The light bulb started to burn as soon as I took a closer look. It is the top OTC producer by a good margin.

2/18/2004 9:01:54 PM

New Hampshire

Let's take the top four of Kyle's list:
1260- 1/2 of the grand parent went light; 801 Stelts 22% light
730- 5 out of 6 parents and grandparents went light. One grandparent 16% light.
1058- 3 out of 4 grandparents goes light.
898- the 898 was 8% heavy(not to shabby) both the 1048& the 1007 weighed close to charts and the grandparent were nothing to write home about.
CONCLUSION: Cross any two seed and you might have a cross that goes heavy, light or close to the charts. Eni Meni Mine Mo

2/18/2004 10:22:53 PM

Deer Park WA

Kyle look at your line up and tell me how many of those seeds were in the hands of "Rookie" growers? I firmly believe that the growers skill, combined with the climatic/soil conditions that the plant is exposed to determines the expression the fruit's characteristics.

2/18/2004 11:31:52 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Gads,
You're exactly right there. All experienced growers.

2/19/2004 6:38:47 AM

Deer Park, WI

The subject of heaviness is one that boggles most of us. I too have looked for explanations and trends in this subject and come up empty. Even when breaking down the factors influcencing heaviness leaves us hanging. Here's a few of the things i believe influence heaviness:

color (which is somewhat odd)
Shape
Measuring accuracy
genetics
soil composition

Seeds in the top 4 or 5 of kyles list seem to consistently prouduce heavy fruit. (heavy being >est wt.) Now given the variability of soils, shapes, accuracys, and colors within a single seed line, it is probably safe to hypothesize that heavyness is attributable to genetics. Hence the smart reasoning perpetuating these genetics.

To answer Mr. Bears' question, why do light parents beget heavy offspring? I believe this once again leads to the random arrangement of genetics. Given the evidence provided above, there seems to be a gene(s) that influences tissue density and/or wall thickness. Bring the right parents together and simple mendelian genetics goes to work. Unfortunately there is no way to predict what the right combination of seeds will be. The best we can do is what Kyle has suggested....breed consistent heavy producers with others like them and test their offspring. Please dont take my ramblings as gospel, but as mere speculation.

2/19/2004 8:57:12 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

I'd add heat to that list Joze, BF

2/19/2004 9:55:13 AM

Edmonton, Canada

I think that this indicates that genetics just aren't as important as growing conditions. Soil conditions, water, sun, and fertilizer are the main things that will effect the final outcome. I'm sure genetics play a role, just not as big as many people think.

2/19/2004 10:15:06 AM

ontario

well take another look...
1058..712 x 845
805...1092 x 723
1337..845 x 712
1097.5..845 x 723
1020...712 x 801.5
695..723 x 545
1260...845 x 846
see anything that keeps showing up ???

2/21/2004 10:49:43 AM

ontario

Al Eaton told me once, that the best genes will keep showing through from generation to generation...anyone care to guess which one keeps poking its ugly head through most times....????

2/21/2004 10:53:46 AM

Decatur, IL

The 935 Lloyd?
Charlie

2/21/2004 12:34:16 PM

Decatur, IL

Also, not to take anything away from the 946.5 Geerts, I believe it is present in all these seeds. The 935 and 946.5 both tend to produce heavy fruit.

2/21/2004 12:42:29 PM