From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Stouffville

Shouldn't crosses between giant pumpkins and squash present significant opportunities for hybrid vigor, due to the typical self/sib pollination strategy by which squash have been bred for generations?

10/22/2004 6:22:28 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

675 Hester* x 1260 Weir?

10/22/2004 9:16:31 PM

Jammerama,

Hybrid vigor is sometimes acheived by crossing two genetically diverse (but compatible), true-breeding varieties. It can be characterized by exceptionally vigorous growth, disease resistance, or a number of other traits. The resulting F1 generation is also VERY uniform in appearance and habit. If all these elements exist then you may have a good case for claiming hybrid vigor. If not, you don't.

10/23/2004 2:36:18 PM

That State Up North

Squash x Pumpkin crosses have been tried many times over the years. Hybrid vigor, a very difficult subject, especial for us given such limited knowledge. In the case of what I like to consider true hybrid vigor, I have not seen a large number of indicators that this is a factor in work with giant c. maxima breeding. Pumpkin and squash are not that distant, and there are not actualy that many good lines developed on either side of the tree, well maybe a few but I digress. The key is finding traits that are expressed on different loci than either parent has, and when you make the cross, the heterozygote is expressd at these loci irregardless of dominance or recessive character for each gene. The very careful ovserver of phenotype may be able to make guesses at such things, but it is difficult, and ultimatly inconclusive since we have no molecular markers.
I will say that I will be interested to follow trials of any such project, particularly in regard to F1 distribution of % heavy compared to the parental lines (probably much less % than you would hope for).
mmm, interesting stuff, easy to spend lots of resources on such a project.

Nic Welty

10/24/2004 11:28:46 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

The modern day "Atlantic Giant" fruits grown today are nothing more than large squash and large pumpkins which have been crossed together. Offspring were monitored and selected for specific traits, inbred/ in line bred to breed out or in the desirable or non desirable traits, then isolated to breed true orange producing pumpkins.

Dill needed many seasons spanning decades to end up with the high quality genetics he has produced. Ed Gancarz also spent decades growing and breeding with the same goals as Dill. Ed didn't do any controlled breeding, but he did achieve good results anyway, and his genetic results were comparable to Dills as far as weight goes. Dill genetics were much more controlled and grew orange fruit producing plants on a consistant basis. Gancarz wasn't such a purist for color as Dill was, he simply grew them for weight and size... color was just a bonus not a requirement.

Everything today can be traced back to these two growers. Sometime in the 80's, these two genetics were grown and crossed together... the rest is history.

There are no known records of what was crossed with what from back then, but that is the time period from which real hybrid vigor for heavy/ large fruits were created. For about the past 15 years there have not been any real hybrid crosses created similar to the inital Dill/ Gancarz stuff.

10/25/2004 12:00:39 PM

Syracuse, NY

this all sounds like an episode of "NOVA"....
it is almost like pumpkin anthropology by the sounds of it!
i wish they would DO a show, all about it, but different
than the one on HGTV. anyone seen something like that? eric
yes, i have ALMOST every Joel Holland tape...lol!

11/1/2004 6:36:37 PM