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Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

I have found an old dairy farm that went out of business and I can have all the 5 year old cow manure I want. I got one load so far and it looks good, it now a very dark almost black soil. I'm also gonna add some mushroom compost, only and inch or two, and about 100 lbs of lime per 1000 sq. feet, my ph was only 5.3, so I don't think this will be overkill. What if anything else should I add? I have some old hay I was thinking of adding and myabe some leaves too. Thanks for the help.

11/1/2005 5:38:11 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

I wouldnt add the hay to the patch.

11/1/2005 8:58:00 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

This composted manure is black gold. I had a similar product last year and applied about 5-6 tons / 1000 ft2. If you can get more, stock pile for next year. But be careful, your wife and neighbours will be eying up your pile for their flower beds.
Hay will need to decompose and will tie up nitrogen in the process, I would avoid that.
Mushroom compost can be an excellent product, but will vary from farm to farm in its composition. One of the main concerns is the lime added to the compost in its manufacture. This shouldn't be a concern as your Ph is low.Also fresh Mushroom compost can be high in salts. Try to get some that is 3 or more years old. It will be better. However, the composted manure is all you need this year.
With a ph of 5.3, I would add about 150 lbs/ 1000ft2 of Lime.

11/1/2005 10:18:13 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Thanks for the replies, I was going to add 200lbs/1000ft2 of lime but decided to try to take it a little slower, maybe I'll up it a little. I was planning on using the mushroom compost until I found this. I think I'll take that old hay and leaves and compost it with the horse manure I already have. My patch is split into two halves, I'm gonna work on one half at a time, I'll get enough composted manure for atleast the one half and if I can't get enough for the whole patch, I'll do the original plan to the other half

11/2/2005 7:39:18 AM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Does anyone have an idea of what the ph of composted cow manure with nothing added to it would be? Thanks for the help.

11/2/2005 12:26:28 PM

Follansbee, Wv

In an ideal environment, with ideal cows and ideal feed, the composted manure would range between 7.0 and 7.5. Un fortunately, nothing is ever ideal. If the manure has been exposed to the weather, the pH will probably be lower. This is due to the acidic nature of most rainfall in the Eastern US. If in doubt, have it tested.

11/2/2005 2:28:46 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Thanks for the help Monty, I was just looking for a ballpark number. Next question, I just tilled up the soil and found I have cut worms by the millions, when and what should I use to get rid of these? I have a few bags of the Ortho lawn insect killer, bifenthrin I think is the active ingredient. Would this stuff be bad for the patch? Thanks.

11/2/2005 4:52:37 PM

Follansbee, Wv

Are they cutworms or grubs? In any case Tremor could answer that better than I. Some people avoid using ground insect killers on the patch because it can be destructive to the worm population. My opinion is, what is the point of trying to grow if something in the soil is going to kill your plants? Personally, I had a bad seedcorn maggot infestation this year. It cost me my 582 Hester plant. I nuked the patch with Bayer Advanced Ground Insect Killer (imidicloprid). It killed the maggots. Sure the worms suffered too, but guess what? I didn't loose another plant to ground insect damage and the worms came back. I say do what you have to do to grow. Healthy soil attracts worms, they will come back. Once the majority of harmful pests are destroyed, you could revert to more organic methods of control such as beneficial nematodes.

11/2/2005 10:19:25 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

I thought they were cutworms, but it could be a case of mistaken identiity. They're greyish with brown heads. Are there any products that'll kill the bad guys and leave the good guys alone?

11/3/2005 7:50:52 AM

Follansbee, Wv

Those are probably either Japanese or June beetle grubs. You can try Milky Spore Disease for control. It's actually pretty effective and relatively harmless to earthworms. Keep in mind that Milky Spore is derived from Japanese Beetle grubs, so it works on them best and is less effective against June Beetle grubs. Another method would be predacious nematodes. H. heliothidis is probably the best bet. Nematodes have a tough time surviving the winter in the north though so you would have to make another application in the spring and probably in the following fall as well to achieve good control. Other than that, chemical control is about your only option. It's too late in the year for a good chemical application though. The grubs are going deep to avoid the freezing ground. You may get some of them, but most are already out of reach.

11/3/2005 1:00:20 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Thanks again Monty, I did have a fair amount of Japanese beetles this year. They left the pumpkins alone, I think it was from the fish, seaweed and molasses. How big do these grubs get? These are about half inch or a little longer and about 3/16 in diameter.

11/3/2005 4:18:29 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Thats what they are, Japanese beetle grubs, I just found more info and pics after a google search. I ran out to the patch and dug about 10 inches down and 3 feet wide and couldn't find one, when it was plowed monday they were everywhere, they must have gone deeper already.

I now have the old cow manure, about the same amount of horse manure and I'm gonna get a couple loads of the mushroom compost and put a little of it in too then spread it all evenly.

11/3/2005 4:54:46 PM

Dillsburg, PA

Pa PP what part of pa are you from?

11/3/2005 5:01:00 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

I live in central PA, a little west of right in the middle.

11/3/2005 6:11:47 PM

Dillsburg, PA

You near Dillsburg or York Spings

11/3/2005 6:17:39 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

I live a couple hours northwest of Dillsburg, about an hour northeast from Altoona.

11/3/2005 7:03:43 PM

Hayes, Virginia

I had good results using nematodes last spring.

11/3/2005 7:37:39 PM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Where can I find nematodes?

11/3/2005 8:09:40 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Monty, is there a commercial product to control Japanese beetles... if so...what is the name of the product? Way too many of them here, and they like other things that I have growing better than my AG's. Cherry trees and Peach trees seem to suffer the worst and a couple of flowers, and brocoli and cabbage, and etc....I need something to stop them up front. All info appreciated. Peace Wayne

11/3/2005 9:22:22 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Monty, I have never seen "Milky Spore Disease" for sale at any of my local retailers...any suggestions as to where I can purchase the product. Peace Wayne

11/3/2005 9:23:49 PM

Okla

http://www.gardensalive.com/category.asp?start=10&c=13

11/3/2005 11:13:39 PM

Okla

http://www.gardeners.com/Shopping/sell.asp?ProdGroupID=11910&omMerchandising=

http://www.backyardgardener.com/gp/Gardening_Products/Insect_Disease_Con/8-Pack_Milky_Spore_T.html

11/3/2005 11:20:02 PM

Mill Creek West by god Virginia

wayne i grow grapes as well as peaches and punkins and i find that sevin works very well on japanese beetles cucumber beetles etc its pretty cheap protection just my two cents worth keith ps i know a few that spray it directly on soil to help control grubs

11/4/2005 12:16:22 AM

Kevinstinindians@yahoo.com

Thanks for the links Thomas.

11/4/2005 7:31:11 AM

Follansbee, Wv

Sorry, I lost track of this thread. Keith is right, sevin works well against Japanese beetles. Triazicide is pretty effective too. There are also pheromone traps available for Japanese beetles, but I have never used them. All of these only help against the adult beetle though. Remember too that a weedy field near the patch can provide a safe haven for pests. I began spraying the field to the East of my patch in an effort to control the insect populations. The power company was kind enough to spray the field late this summer. I grow in the power line right-of-way. I was very impressed with the care they took to drive around the garden and the attention they paid to wind direction while spraying. (the look on their faces when they saw the pumpkins was pretty funny too) They told me that the weeds should have a tough time coming back this spring, so that will be my opportunity to completely clear the field and keep it mowed.
Eliminating safe areas for pests can go a long way in limiting re-infestation after treatment.
My pre-planting stratagy this spring will include the use of nematodes and milky spore as well as a close monitoring of the tilled soil for the flys that produce seedcorn maggots.

11/24/2005 7:13:10 AM