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Joliet, IL

I was recently asked where I got my zeolite and figured I would share this source that has the most reasonable price I could find.

http://www.agorganics.com/products/ZEOMAX-Zeolite-Turf-Aid-50-lb/13/665.html

While on the site, check out the product called thrive. I used it after applying and incorporating the zeolite last fall then again this past spring after tilling to help reactivate those beneficial communities disturbed in the tilling process and get them set up in the microscopic channels.

10/26/2011 9:57:25 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Shaz, I am sure the benefits of zeolite, have been posted b/4...but maybe you can enlighten us a bit...awl help is appreciated!!!! Peace, Wayne
PS...maybe just a link to a previous post?

10/28/2011 12:36:48 AM

Jacksonville, IL

Check this post
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=20&p=382968

10/29/2011 7:58:28 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Wayne,
This is how it was explained to me in laymans terms when I was interested in reselling it.
Zeolite is a porous material that when heated up the pores became bigger and the zeolite became a polymer.
Once added to your soil or containers when you water or apply liquid ferts to your soil, these pores can become filled with the water and/or ferts and as the roots come into contact with it, they have access to the water and ferts, some growers spoke about "charging" th zeolite by soaking it in fertilizers such as 20-20-20 before applyng it to the soil.
The recommended rates to apply were and may still be 10-20% zeolite to soil. These numbers come from the data that NASA provided from their years of testing and research.
If we did our math correctly at the time, in a 3000 sq ft patch that is 8-10 inches deep, we would need to add something like 20.000 lbs, plus, once added zeolite never dissolves or composts down, it is there for the duration of the patch.
I used about 25 lbs per 20 gallon container this past season and I didn't see any difference.
I know of growers that have used it and feel that they did very well and there are those that feel they did very poorly. It is fairly new to Giant pumpkin growers at this point, but I am interested to see how it evolves.

10/29/2011 9:39:33 AM

Joliet, IL

My reasons for applying both zeolite the past 2 years and biochar the past 4 years is to add soil structure for the better colonization of beneficials. Microscopic reefs that help aggregate the soil over long term in conjunction with the glomalin (the sticky glue of the soil). Structure was the number one reasonb for these addition. All of the other benefits sound fantastic when you read about them especially the cec and and lateral transfer of water. But I am in no way or will add to the amounts of what nasa was trying to achieve. Nasa was looking for a magic soilless mix for space farming with the addition of an appitate which is a long term slow release fert. I added over the past 4 years combined. a total of 200 pounds of biochar per 700 sq ft and 150 pounds pounds of zeolite per 700 sq ft total over the last 2 years. This is all I will add. You can't see it or notice it is there, but if you google the microscopic pictures of both biochar and zeolite, you will see these magnificent particles with a freaky amount of internal porosity and caves and tunnels and surface area.These will not break down. Beneficials will always have a place to set up and colonize. Then with the addition of products like biota max and thrive my goal is to continually add more beneficials besides those from the compost to ensure good colonization. Since using the approach, I have found no negative benefits.

10/29/2011 11:04:34 AM

Joliet, IL

In one of the hardest growing seasons ever, I managed to get 3 pumpkins to scale this year and without sounding like a tool, maybe too late lol, I produced the 1st and 3rd heaviest in illinois this year, 1 and 2 in illinois along with the state record last year, and had multiple 1100 pounders 3 years ago and an 1100 the year before. I do a lot of other things besides these 2 ammendments, but the science to me makes sense. google "the soil food web" this winter and find ways and approaches to building it healthier and stronger and I think the plants and pumpkins will repond to your strategies.

10/29/2011 11:04:47 AM

Massachusetts

this all sounds great, but what has me worried about this stuff is what about soil born diseases? in ex. fusarium, ect..... if the zeolite holds water and nutrients, would it not also hold these spores? this would be devastating for a person like me that do not have the option to rotate my patches! if this was to happen , how would i ever grow again with-out replacing all my soil? just a thought? scott..

10/29/2011 1:03:52 PM

Joliet, IL

Very great point scott. It all depends what type of soil you have, what type of drainage, disease pressure etc. I have worked on my soil for 6 years prior and turned a crappy clay based soil into a nice textured crowned patch with great drainage. In my hot illinois backyard enclosed by a fence and brown brick house and asphalt driveway and road on the other side, it makes more sense for me to use a product that will help retain more moisture evenly. And I do not bury or trench vines either. I just cover the leaf junctions on secondaries when adding myc to avoid the possibilities of rot or diseases forming in the illinois hot and humid conditions. So yes, it may not be for everyone in every climate, but it has seemed to have no ill effects here and I believe may be a small part of my success in that time. Am I proof positive these things work...hell no. Do I like the science and am I happy I tried them....yes I am.

10/29/2011 1:35:42 PM

Massachusetts

shazzy, i might just try it in one patch next year, thanks for the input, ......ps, how are the shazzy domes working!lol, scott....

10/29/2011 2:30:45 PM

Joliet, IL

Lol scott....love the shazzydome!! Survived multiple 70 mph storms and in the 2 years I have used it I grew 4 plants that produced the following: 1493, 1209, 1156, and 1097. Is it the zeolite, the biochar, the dome, or just plain dumb luck?...a combo platter.....lol.

10/29/2011 4:01:00 PM

Joliet, IL

http://www.soilfoodweb.com/sfi_approach1.html

11/4/2011 9:24:32 AM

Joliet, IL

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=17388

This is a nice thread talking about Biota max, Thrive, and Mycogrow products and how each work and Actinovate is mentioned as well.

11/4/2011 10:19:39 AM

Joliet, IL

A biochar thread about improved microbial biomass with biochar but still not enough studies for exactly how or why it works. These are all getting off the zeolite thread here but the combo of these sites will explain my rationale for using porous materials like zeolite and biochar in conjunction with products like biota max, thrive, and actinovate along with using myc fungi innoculants how the soil food web is effected. Also a product I use called aerify plus that I spray early spring season and also in the fall at a higher rate then the product specifies. It is a combo of molasses, kelp, humic acid, and a clay particle seperator. The molasses feeds the bacteria, the humic acid feeds the fungi, and the kelp feeds both. These are all things I have added to my mix of soil prep over the last 2 to 4 years as I try to increase the health and vitality of the entire soil food web.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0038071711001805

11/4/2011 10:51:33 AM

Glosta

I added 50 lbs in 1200 sq feet, needless to say if you have a wet patch DON'T use this. you will never dry out. My patch was saturated this year and the spots with zeopro were wetter considerably longer than other 2 spots. yes it holds nutrients and water and i'm sure the technology of it is great in the right conditions. but heed this warning "IT STAYS THERE FOREVER!!!!"

11/4/2011 1:30:30 PM

Glosta

sorry typo, should have been 100 lbs in 1200 square feet, it was 50 lbs in (2) 600 sq ft spots

11/4/2011 1:31:37 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Shazzy, I beleive that the biochar, and giving much more attention to soil biology, balanced soil and a decent fert program hqave helped you reach these great goals!

11/4/2011 3:18:38 PM

Joliet, IL

Tom, your foliar products as well are all part of the program and the reason for my nice run of luck. My major goal in my climate is to keep my soil happy number one, provide the best climate for my plants in early rooting and plant developement stage, and then battle the elements and provide foliar feeding at critical stages when needed most.
I am definately one who will go out on a limb to try scientific approaches that make the most sense to me. I in no way mean to tell anyone that they should buy these products and they will instantly create crazy drastic improvements in their weights. There are so many snake oil products and cure alls to waste money on. But there are also methods to the madness of getting the soil to maximum effeciency. I enjoy reading as many scientific studies I can google on all topics and then deciding what course of action I take.

11/4/2011 6:14:31 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Shazzy, great post, my hat is off to you!
I know that you put in a lot of time researching and improving, great job!

11/4/2011 10:49:52 PM

Joliet, IL

Thanks Tom, these are only a couple threads I just happened to be reading that day. There is so much info out there for the curious mind. Winter time is as good as any to sit at the computer and get lost in the world of soil, plant physiology, foliar feeding, genetics...etc. the scientific lingo can be overwhelming sometimes, but the more you read the more you hit the basic summaries at the end of a study that wraps it up in laymans terms and then going back and understanding the specifics becomes easier. My favorite subject in school was always science and my brain gets a charge from understanding "why" so I can figure out a way "how". For me it is just plain fun. Keep up the great work you are doing too Tom, and I always love the candy too. Lol.

11/5/2011 7:55:27 AM